$25 NLHE Full Ring: sizing 3 bet against shortstack

No Brainer

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No read on villain other than he is shortstacked so probably bad. Want some ideas on a 3 bet size to use here.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
Hero ($44.49)
BB ($8.10)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($25)
UTG+2 ($25.94)
MP1 ($11.61)
MP2 ($8.75)
CO ($23)
BTN ($10.64)

Dealt to Hero A♠ K♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero raises to
 
bgomez89

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3xing it seems fine to me rather than 3.5-4x
 
c9h13no3

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1/3rd of his stack so you can shove the flop.
 
Mortis

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$2.25 - $3.25 sounds good to me.
 
bgomez89

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if you make it more than 3x he might think that he's putting in too much of his stack and fold
 
B

baudib1

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No Brainer said:
why?



That is a very wide range. Think about what is going to happen post flop after we 3 bet. The stack sizes compared to the pot we make will be crucial to the decision we make.



why?
Click to expand...


Shortstacks want to get it all-in, we want to get it all in. If he changes his mind so much the better. If we 3-bet any other amount (flatting is out of the question) we are basically pot-committed with his stack after an OOP cbet anyway so we might as well neutralize all positional advantage. If BTN had just open-shipped we would obviously be thrilled to call, so we gain the advantage that he might fold the 55% or 40% or 30% equity he has.
 
No Brainer

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bgomez89 said:
if you make it more than 3x he might think that he's putting in too much of his stack and fold
Click to expand...

So whats the plan when the flop bricks?

baudib1 said:
Shortstacks want to get it all-in, we want to get it all in. If he changes his mind so much the better. If we 3-bet any other amount (flatting is out of the question) we are basically pot-committed with his stack after an OOP cbet anyway so we might as well neutralize all positional advantage. If BTN had just open-shipped we would obviously be thrilled to call, so we gain the advantage that he might fold the 55% or 40% or 30% equity he has.
Click to expand...

We do want to get it all in however don't you think we may have a little too much to be shoving here? I think we will be getting a lot more folds by shoving rather than just 3 betting which is not necessarily what we want. How about 3 betting to a size so he will have a pot sized stack left on the flop (size is 1/3 of his stack) and shoving every flop? We will be getting an extra 11 bbs when he calls and folds or still be playing for stacks if he correctly thinks he is committed and calls.
 
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