$25 NLHE Full Ring: Should i have bluff the river?

M

masadad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
142
Chips
0
partypoker - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 97.88 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 5)
SB: 97.84 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
BB: 201.16 BB (VPIP: 21.15, PFR: 10.54, 3Bet Preflop: 3.86, Hands: 1,081)
Hero (UTG): 109.36 BB
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 13.75, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 81)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.55, PFR: 11.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 297)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:heart: Q:heart:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond: 9:heart: 8:heart:
Hero bets 5.28 BB, BTN raises to 10.56 BB, Hero calls 5.28 BB

Turn: (28.52 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (28.52 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows K:heart: Q:heart: (High Card, King)
(Pre 29%, Flop 42%, Turn 32%)
BTN shows ??
 
T

Tomasz

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Total posts
94
Chips
0
Should i have second barrel hits turn , probably not raise the flop , to wait turn
 
M

masadad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
142
Chips
0
i wonder why did he check the river... it was a perfect spot for him to bluff me out. villain had AQo
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
What do you rep on river that calls flop raise?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
Our villain I'm guessing has top pair and is too scared to bet the later streets because flush and straight is out there?

It's weird :)

As played theres not much else we can do I think and that's why OOP sucks.

Hmmm interested to see what ppl think if we re-raised or shoved flop though
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
I think even if you bluff river, he will still call you up.

The difference really here is OOP intending to bluff compared to the opposite.
 
R

razzor94

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Total posts
344
Awards
1
Chips
1
I think you played fine given that you dont have much info on your opponent. I would probably bet the turn of i had more info on the player, cause when he calls it looks like he can have T8, T9, QT, QJ, KJ, AJ, or some strange baby flush draw. I think AhJh, 2 pair or better are check raising you almost allways. Once you check the turn i dont think there is much chance for you to take it on the river, cause what are you representing ? If you hit your straight you would bet the turn. You cant really have a 6 once you open from that position unless its 6 6. If you had a jack and you checked the turn would you bet the river for value ? I think not. Cause he folds anything worse than J and calls only better. So all in all fine play by me untill you get some more info on this guy.
 
M

masadad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
142
Chips
0
well enough of how i played it. now what do you make of his re-raise on the flop with his AQo?
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
well enough of how i played it. now what do you make of his re-raise on the flop with his AQo?

Obviously terrible because people are not c betting that flop with a weak hand that plans on folding to a min raise but how is criticizing villain going to help your game? FWIW you can rep 1010 and AhJh exactly which is not many combos and villain is probably calling too often after he plays this way. Even value betting AJ on this river is pretty thin
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Total posts
4,298
Awards
1
Chips
17
Hey, thanks for letting me review your HH's. I'm going to be brutally honest because that's what I think you're looking for so please don't take any thing I say personally. Also, keep in mind that these observations are just my opinion based on personal experience. There's more than one way to skin a cat and other and possibly better opinions may vary wildly.



Dealt 77 you opened for 3x OTB and called 35bb. The call is marginal at best but I don't hate it at .10/.25 table vs. a Laggy opponent. In this case the villain is about 56/22/2 but you only have 9 hands on him so basically no info. I might call myself in this situation but for 50bb or greater I need more info. A good understanding of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Professional-No-Limit-Hold-Matt-Flynn/dp/188068540X"]Stack to Pot Ratios[/ame] make these tough situations a little easier.



WTF hand #1. You open raised 3x OTB with A7s and called an 80bb shove from the same guy that showed you AQ before. What were you thinking? Sure you flopped the nut flush but that's way beside the point, you were a 2:1 dog vs even his widest range. Don't pat yourself on the back for this one. Play this out 10 times and you're into this chump for 60 bucks.

Good folds to 3bets with ax

Playing too many hands but not attrocious. Maybe let some of your suited rags, weak aces go from the blinds 57s A8o

Try not to limp IP. Always open raise and follow with a Cbet in position most of the time (there are exceptions but this should be your default play). examples from your HH= QJo OTB, KTo HJ, KJo MP (fold this)

ATS OTB K4s and called 3x 3bet from the SB. Just let it go preflop. You know you're just going to fold to his C-bet anyway and how comfortable are you going to be if a K falls on the flop?

Dealt K6s you limped th HJ with K6s. Suited hands look pretty but only add about 4% to the value of a hand. K6s is essentially the same hand as K6o, the difference being that your likely to lose a lot less with the K6o. And then you flopped trips. Congratulations.



KQ is a classic trouble hand. If someone raises in early position your probably best off just folding. but if you must play then proceed with extreme caution. In the case in hand you were up against aces who took you to value town when the board paired your king. What did you think you were up against that was worse than KQ? KJ will NEVER play back at you like this.
Later on you called an UTG raise with KQ and then proceeded to call a 3 bet and a 4 bet before folding to the 6 bet. In that case you were up against AA and AQs. See what I mean?

JTo in the CO. Open raise with it. You limped and the button came along as well as both blinds. The flop came Jack high monotone and you checked. Any club is going to call so why check and give them a free card. the King fell on the turn and now you bet? Raise Pf, bet the flop, check call the turn. Fold the river.

A6o UTG is a fold every time. Weak aces from early are the catnip of losing players. You want to be the guy with AJ+ when the weak player under the gun has A6. You wisely folded to the 4 bet and watched from the sidelines as QQ stacked of to AK on an Ace high flop. If you had stuck around AK might have tripled up.

WTF hand #2. You raise 4x from the CO with AQ and both blinds call. OK. Flop is 35Ar YAY! check check Check? Well, OK. I do this myself sometimes in order to get action from a weaker ace.
King on the turn. Action goes check, bet pot, and you FOLD? Please tell me this was a misclick! Why on earth did you fold? Did you have some amazing AK read on the Big Blind? Don't forget he just called preflop. Of course sometimes he'll have a 2pair or a set or AK but way more often then not he's going to have a weaker ace that he thinks is good. Why not just call. If the SB comes over the top then you have enough info to lay it down. As it stands you're in for the a ride.
You watch as A7 scoops a big pot from KQ that could have and should have been yours.

Again you limp the CO with K3s and call a 4x raise from the button. I don't like the call but this is a good exercise in pot odds. You flop a flush draw and call a continuation bet getting 3:1 direct pot odds. Do you know what your odds of making your hand on the turn are? Do you know how much you'll need to make off your opponent to justify the call? In this case you need about 4:1. If you call the pot will be about $6.50 and you'll need to make about $1.60 more to break even. Sounds reasonable. Good call.
The turn is a brick and he fires out $4.65 into a $6.53 pot. You still need the 4:1 to call but your only getting 2.4:1. If you make your hand on the river you'll need to get another $7.42 off him just to break even! the pot will be almost $16 but your hand will be face up and he's unlikely to call with just a pair. You dug yourself a big hole by calling preflop with a crap hand that had no real value beyond a flush draw. Don't go down that road.

67s from the SB you complete and then chase a back door gutshot. This is unlike you. It's toward the end of the session and your stuck $55. I think your getting tired.

Next hand is AA. You stack TT and quit. Were you waiting for a big hand to quit? That's a bad habit to get into. Usually that hand never comes and more often than not you'll end up overplaying some mediocre hand.


Some observations.
with very few exceptions you don't play alot of crap hands but even a few are to many. You're not a maniac by any means but you still play too many hands. Every session is different and sometimes your just running over the table but that wasn't the case here and I think you can afford to trim some fat. You might start with ditching the suited kings and maybe folding some otherwise pretty hands to preflop raises. Try to get your vpip down below 25%. Even that's pretty loose but one step at a time.

With very few exceptions you should try to come in for a raise whenever you can. You should always feel a little sick to your stomach when you limp into a pot.

You like suited connectors? Fold the little ones, open raise the big ones.

I like your bet sizing. A lot of people seem to panic when they have a big preflop hand and try to raise everyone out of the pot in an attempt to avoid a bad beat. I didn't see that in you. If anything you might consider raising a bit more in multi way pots. most people have a tendency to call a bigger bet then they should once they've invested in the pot. In for a penny, in for a pound. You want them to call but if they want to crack your aces make them pay for the privilege.

Once again, thanks for letting me sweat you. It was a nice lttle diversion for me. Bed time for Bonzo, big day tomorrow.

GL and feel free to contact me.
 
M

masadad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
142
Chips
0
thanks a lot for taking your time with the HH. i will get back to you on this later tonight.

by the way, WTF hand #2 i most likely had to be away for some reason right after the flop. and by the time i got back my hand was already folded by default as time ran out. only around 20 seconds you get in partypoker. no way i was going to play that hand like that.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Total posts
4,298
Awards
1
Chips
17
That makes perfect sense. I also realize that I posted my sweat to the wrong thread. Oops!
 
M

masadad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Total posts
142
Chips
0
i will agree with all of the things you mentioned above. maybe it seemed like the right move to me when i was actually playing the hand. but now i see that some of those hands were actually terribly played by me.

i will get rid of the KT QT type hands and play fewer hands from early position. try and open from late positions with good hands more often and lets see how it goes. i will keep you updated.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Total posts
4,298
Awards
1
Chips
17
Sorry folks, should have posted to this thread:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/point-me-in-right-direction-please-274963/#post2755760

Can't even blame this on mobile posting. How embarrassin😱
 
Top