$25 NLHE Full Ring: River shove bluff vs 2 opponents - spew or a good line?

MP2 ($35.09)
CO ($17.86)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($35.82)
BB ($25)
UTG ($27.51)
UTG+1 ($25)
MP1 ($29.86)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5 , 5
4 folds, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.85, CO calls $0.85

Flop: ($3.40) 6 , 2 , 8 (3 players)
BB bets $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Turn: ($5.65) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $5.65, BB calls $5.65, CO calls $5.65

River: ($22.60) 9 (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $17.50 (All-In), 2 folds

Total pot: $22.60 | Rake: $1.13

Results below:
Both players are unknown, which by itself means they are new to the level so likely fishy (holiday fish).

I had a handful of hands on each, so for what it is worth:
BB is 33 / 7 / no 3bets / AF = 0.4 over 16 hands
CO is 63 / 0 / no 3bets / AF = 0.3 over 16 hands

Anyway:
- Preflop is standard (even though sizing can be discussed), 3bet is unlikely, I have position, blah blah.
- Flop I just call and wait to see what happens on the turn. Maybe I bink something, who knows, not like the price is high. Heads up I like to raise these weak donks but against 2 it doesn't work all that well.
- Turn I bink OESD (double gutter, same thing) so after they both check I put them on draws (BB probably a FD). I bet hard since I get multiple benefits (if I bink I stack someone, if I miss oh well OR I can bluff). Diamonds are probably not my outs though.
- River is a blank (57 raises turn, T7 is possible but what the hell) and I thought this is a very good spot to push them off a better pair since with my strong turn bet and river shove they might give up. This is debatable since they might be megastations and not types who give up if they miss their draws.

This was a strong Thread of Shame candidate but it worked out this time.

Opinions? Mostly I am interested in river but the whole hand is good too.

fold the flop or raise

Fold flop

Those saying fold flops aren't reading how obvious a blocker bet this is at low stakes. Your line stinks because you flat flop. You are never flatting a flop with any viable hand in this situation. That said, the only hand you really have to worry about calling as played is a stupid 75, so I like the follow through.

I'm not sure what you're repping exactly. 57?

I'd fold the flop. You're either slightly ahead, or you have opponents (plural) that likely have pretty good equity against your range, and lots of bad turns and rivers for your hand. If it was just one guy, I don't mind a flop raise.

Not a fan of trying to bluff two fish in general. You get an A for effort though.

it looks like a a draw to me and you missed

you call flop, you call turn for "1/4" of your stack (after a guy before you called)

then you shoved on the river because they checked

if i had A8 or better i would have called you

Excellent raise preflop, I like that.
The flop bet of .75 was standard but TOO SMALL.
The turn bet was a little bit TOO BIG
the river jam was just the final chapter in your story, and that was standard.
If your going to bluff by 3barreling this is how you do it. You know your opponents know that your light. But do they know that you know that they know your light? When the board brings small cards they can't call you even if they pair up - you represented something bigger the ENTIRE way.
My only concern for you is that the flop and turn bets were not sized properly. I won't lie, if I was the villain in this spot I might time bank the river and tank call with something as light as K6. Just make the flop bigger and then make the turn bet about 68-75%. If you size the flop bet larger you lose one player (and possibly 2) so your river 3barrel only has to get through one opponent.

actually NVM thought you opened flop, I see you called the .75 which makes perfect sense - backdoor straight draws 2 outs to a set and showdown value. When they weakly check the turn you pot it, but I still think the bet was a LITTLE bit too big. Otherwise I like the way you thinking.

Ld, im not a fan of this play at all. Im answering from a cellphone but ill try to give you my input with no paragraphs. Cutoff limps , so its likely he has some medium pocket pair or medium suited connectors A very small percentage of the time he has a monster. When you reraise pre with your 55, you are polarizing your range to hands that have totally missed this flop when both Bb and cutoff have hit it huge! When you get action on turn, esp after your line doesnt make too much sense, how do you ever expect to get folds on river when its pretty obvious they have both commited themselves. ( if not both, at least 1)And how is anyone ever calling that turn bet and folding river? Its really risky if you ask me. But still i do it all the time. I just dont really like it.

Henreiman said:

Those saying fold flops aren't reading how obvious a blocker bet this is at low stakes. Your line stinks because you flat flop. You are never flatting a flop with any viable hand in this situation. That said, the only hand you really have to worry about calling as played is a stupid 75, so I like the follow through.

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rumsey182 said:

fold the flop or raise

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uhm cough cough,.....

Hmmm… don't mind the follow through either, risky, but the board was favourable I think. Given your holiday fishy observation, I think one of your opponents had a diamond FD, the other a slow played (OK badly played) over pair.

Thx for the input guys but I see some mistakes with reading the hand:

1) Preflop I iso raise, not 3bet
2) Flop I am a caller, not bettor
3) Turn and river I crank it all the way up

John - Not sure what I am repping except a set, but I am not sure these guys bother much with this kind of thought. It is more like "what do I have?" and possibly "how big is that bet I consider calling?" My line and sizing was supposed to convince them their 1 pair hand is no good here. I don't expect them to ever fold 2P+ for any price.

I am pretty sure I have to bet big to move them from better 1 pair hands, anything smaller gets called for sure.

Yeah I normally don't do this 'cause it is mega risky but here I was fairly sure they are weak. However the whole turn/river line needs to work a lot to be profitable (if I miss my own 6-out draw that is).

LD1977 said:

John - Not sure what I am repping except a set, but I am not sure these guys bother much with this kind of thought. It is more like "what do I have?" and possibly "how big is that bet I consider calling?" My line and sizing was supposed to convince them their 1 pair hand is no good here. I don't expect them to ever fold 2P+ for any price.

I am pretty sure I have to bet big to move them from better 1 pair hands, anything smaller gets called for sure.

Yeah I normally don't do this 'cause it is mega risky but here I was fairly sure they are weak. However the whole turn/river line needs to work a lot to be profitable (if I miss my own 6-out draw that is).

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I think that same kind of reasoning though is why they call with 8x or even 6x. They are just looking at their hand, and it's less than a post sized bet. The turn bet is probably the biggest mistake though. But, it worked, so it must be good.

This isn't a hand where I worry about assigning specific ranges, that donk bet and the way the hand plays out makes the river a super easy bet for you. It's not perfect every time, but situationally this is an easy shove to exploit. However, you should consider raising flop - there are too many turns which we hate, and raising opens our range wider.

I don't like size of turn bet either, but I think river shove is good.

I'd like it better if we didn't have a diamond, but this will still be one of the better hands we have to bluff with in this spot.

disregard my previous post in this thread. after looking at this hand again, i just noticed the double gutter on the turn. I thought you were doing it with air at first glance.

+1 for play man. Once in a while we gotta throw these type of plays in there. Esp in spots like this where we have blockers to the straight and the only hand that is calling here is prolly a set and 7T(which is highly unlikely anyone has).

Over pairs are definitely folding to this type of action if villains have any brain.

pre and flop are standard but i check back the turn cause we have SDV and id really prefer betting a lot of draws in our range tbh.

As played i really don't like jamming the 9 OTR. I think it hits his range a lot and vs these two villains i think you get snapped off by a lot of hands.

just my opinion though.