$25 NLHE Full Ring: Nut Flush

$25 NL HE Full Ring: Nut Flush

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 30/16/8

Would you of played this any differently? If so which street?



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($20)
MP2 ($11.40)
Hero (MP3) ($34.14)
CO ($23.72)
Button ($17.53)
SB ($21.65)
BB ($23.61)
UTG ($139.01)
UTG+1 ($22.63)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A , 7
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($1.10) 10 , A , 6 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, CO calls $1.25, 2 folds

Turn: ($3.60) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.25, CO calls $4.25

River: ($12.10) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $17.97 (All-In), Hero calls $17.97

Total pot: $48.04 | Rake: $2.40

Results:
Hero had A , 7 (flush, Ace high).
CO had 6 , 6 (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: Hero won $45.64

I don't know if I play A7s against the UTG raiser, but you didn't post his stats so I guess I'll ignore it.

My opinion is that with a villan as agressive as this you can probably c/r the turn to get the stacks in. I feel like overbetting the turn gets alot of weak aces and middle pairs to fold, while with a c/r we can capture a bet from an over agressive opponent.

I don't understand why you check the river unless you are giving him a chance to bluff the flush card. You have bet two streets which doesn't look like a flush draw, and it is just natural to bet-bet-bet. The biggest problem checking here is giving weak/medium/strong aces a chance to check behind.

Still the results are good

Pre-flop raise or fold. It's going to be difficult to make limping proffitable after the times that someone raises behind you and you have to fold. There's also some easy money to pick up from the blinds and UTG, if you raise.

On the flop I bet smaller, you have a huge draw, one that you want action on. Betting so much means that anything that does call you has you beat and even AK may go into pot control if you bet the same on later streets. If you bet smaller then you get value from dominated draws and don't fold out as many A's.

The turn makes sense if you're against a huge calling station but against most players I think 2/3-3/4 pot makes sense. By overbetting flop and turn you're repping AT/set/combo draw and I think overbetting the turn removes a lot of those combo draws from your range.
I think you'd be lucky to get action from AQ/AJ here.

River, as played easy shove. You've been repping huge strength and he has been coming along anyway, just shove you're against something that will pay you.

Just to let you guys know im not much of a cash player so all advice is very helpful also this is on a rush table if that changes anything. So thank you for any comments.

Mamushi said:

I don't know if I play A7s against the UTG raiser, but you didn't post his stats so I guess I'll ignore it.

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No raise just a limper.

He has not shown any aggression in the hand what so ever. What makes you think he is going to bet on the river? Just do the betting yourself.

BEERM4N said:

No raise just a limper.

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My bad.


Another point about the check on the river - an *8* agression factor. Do you know how hard that is to get? A 6 is considered super agressive. So it might be safe to say that if this guy is in a hand no street is going c/c. That being said I still think betting and giving him a chance to raise on the river is better. I still stand by my c/r on the turn.

Mamushi said:

Another point about the check on the river - an *8* agression factor. Do you know how hard that is to get? A 6 is considered super agressive. So it might be safe to say that if this guy is in a hand no street is going c/c. That being said I still think betting and giving him a chance to raise on the river is better. I still stand by my c/r on the turn.

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I think that is worth noting. you have a hyper aggressive player- dont know over how many hands you have on him- he is just calling you down, no raises, just calling.
If nothing else thats a note worth taking- when he hits big he slowplays.

Whenever I see something that sticks out as contrary to a players normal nature then it sends off a red flag for me. Why is this typically aggressive guy just calling me? Something worth thinking about if nothing else.

checking back the river is just pure genius. If he had a hand he would always bet for value, if not then he's not calling anyway.

You give his whole range a chance to bluff at this.

Give yourself a big pat on the back.

KardKlub said:

checking back the river is just pure genius. If he had a hand he would always bet for value, if not then he's not calling anyway.

You give his whole range a chance to bluff at this.

Give yourself a big pat on the back.

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Checking the river is horrible because you give him a great opportunity to check behind with his most likely hands (Ax). Also he basically never bluffs at that board because there are just so many draws that got there. So if he had any draw it got there and he'll call our river shove. So his range is Ax and that takes a cheap SD by checking behind or made hands that call the river shove. Why do you want to check again???

If you still disagree please list what range you think he bluff shoves that river with that folds if we bet???

Checking the river in first position with the nuts is just always horrible, you need to make some bet, whatever you think is most likely to get called or played back at.

If you're going to go for a check-raise in this hand, it's on the turn because you're crushing his range, never getting away from it and have redraws even if beat.

WVHillbilly said:

Checking the river is horrible because you give him a great opportunity to check behind with his most likely hands (Ax). Also he basically never bluffs at that board because there are just so many draws that got there. So if he had any draw it got there and he'll call our river shove. So his range is Ax and that takes a cheap SD by checking behind or made hands that call the river shove. Why do you want to check again???

If you still disagree please list what range you think he bluff shoves that river with that folds if we bet???

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HIS WHOLE RANGE. i did say this in my previous post.

To an agressive player you look so pitifully scared that the flush got there, and he called you down (which usually means draw. Any weak hand would have given up on the turn bet as not many people float with an A on the board after a second barrel with marginal hands.)

Now if he's bluffing he has to bet large to get you off your pair of aces or you'd call him down. Shoving would win him the pot every time if you don't have the flush.

Now 8 aggression makes this move more perfect.

Now this may not be the best play all the time but it doesn't hurt to loose a few $ now and then to win alot.:tee:

But he's not bluffing with his entire range. You think AJ is shoving that river?

So exactly what hands does he get to the river with here that he decides to turn into a bluff and shove with???

Thing is most of his range is hands that have showdown value and don't even think about bluffing this river. He rarely gets to the river with anything worse than Tx here, and Tx will often just check back, whereas there's a good chance it will call a river bet.

The number one mistake people make is calling too much. Bet river all day.

edit: c/r the turn is a nice option. He may not call another bet with 78/79/Tx, but will often bet for no good reason, plus he'll value/protection bet Ax and never fold vs a c/r. Also gives him a chance to bet his complete air.

It really looks like villain was on a smaller flush draw (lucky for us) or decided to turn his slow-played straight into a bluff. The rest of his range is obviously Ax. You've been overbetting the pot all the way; I think what looks to be a blocking bet with the nuts (say, $4.25) will make him cry and call with a lot of worse hands and spazz out with plenty of others. Checking is bad.

I'd play about every street different. raise/ fold pre, unless you know you have really passive guys behind you. Bet less on the flop. It's a limped pot, no one is going to have much here. Pot the turn is fine, but after the guy calls two large bets why would you check the river? That makes zero sense.

WVHillbilly said:

But he's not bluffing with his entire range. You think AJ is shoving that river?

So exactly what hands does he get to the river with here that he decides to turn into a bluff and shove with???

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He could turn up here with a napkin and a voucher for mother care, it doesn't matter. It would take a really strong hand here to call you when you shove the river. Every draw got there. It's perfect for a river bluff.

8 aggression 8 aggression 8 aggression. Play the man works here.
Beer needs a pat on the back if he checked behind for deception to make villain spaz out.

If he just got lucky then i take it back, but I don't see a set shoving over his bet on the river like he did to his check.

It's not the best ev play but a dam fine one.

KardKlub said:

He could turn up here with a napkin and a voucher for mother care, it doesn't matter. It would take a really strong hand here to call you when you shove the river. Every draw got there. It's perfect for a river bluff.

8 aggression 8 aggression 8 aggression. Play the man works here.
Beer needs a pat on the back if he checked behind for deception to make villain spaz out.

If he just got lucky then i take it back, but I don't see a set shoving over his bet on the river like he did to his check.

It's not the best ev play but a dam fine one.

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I'm not saying we should bet small, in fact I think we should shove the river. We get calls from all his strong made hands since every draw got there AND he'll occasionally look us up with hands as weak as Ax because we might be bluffing.

The highlighted part makes no sense. We should ALWAYS be trying to make the highest EV play.

Also OP said that he doesnt play much ring so putting to much credit on the 8AF doesnt seem right to me.
Chances are he doesnt have more then a few dozen hands on him meaning his AF is basicly worthless.

OP how many hand u got on villain?

WVHillbilly said:

I'm not saying we should bet small, in fact I think we should shove the river. We get calls from all his strong made hands since every draw got there AND he'll occasionally look us up with hands as weak as Ax because we might be bluffing.

The highlighted part makes no sense. We should ALWAYS be trying to make the highest EV play.

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what i meant was best EV play as a standard play. I think you new that anyway.

If you thought at any point villain had a really strong hand that would call a river shove then your a dam fine poker player. I would never have villian on a set, and yes with a set no one ever folds a river shove lol.

Like i said, i liked his play, if he did it thinking outside the box.

KardKlub said:

what i meant was best EV play as a standard play. I think you new that anyway.

If you thought at any point villain had a really strong hand that would call a river shove then your a dam fine poker player. I would never have villian on a set, and yes with a set no one ever folds a river shove lol.

Like i said, i liked his play, if he did it thinking outside the box.

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I would basically always shove the river here as my standard play because I think it will make me the most $$ over the long run. More than checking to induce. More than betting small (also to induce). And more than betting pot because even though it will get called slightly more often than the shove, it won't be enough to make up for the $$ left in his stack.

For me, scary board + nuts + river shove = $$$

sindri_93 said:

OP how many hand u got on villain?

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I only had about 60 hands on the villian.

Thanks for all the responses guys all helping me improve my ring games