$25 NLHE Full Ring: Not sure if its worth it here?

I put the UTG raiser on a tight range as he'd only been raising from late position really and had only previously opened once from EP, plus his raise size is rather large.

Guy to my left was 70/10 type fish who was always going to call, so i flatted thinking i had lots of implied odds and that it was unlikely anyone behind me would 3bet etc.

Then i started to doubt the whole thing. I dont know if i should of raised UTG's cbet because i just dont think he's gonna fold that often considering his range is so strong, so maybe i should of just folded pre? Or is it fine calling here, and calling the flop? Should i be only doing this when i know how UTG acts to flop raises? I wouldnt feel happy stacking against him if he 3bet shoved or something as we only have 9 outs max.

Is it okay because of the fish to the left? Really unsure what's best here as you can tell!


poker stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1631429
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: $27.26
MP2: $25.00
CO: $15.65
Hero (BTN): $26.14
SB: $25.97
BB: $25.00
UTG: $32.50
UTG+1: $10.75

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with J :diamond: Q :diamond:
UTG raises to $1.10, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.10, SB calls $1, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.55) 4 :heart: 2 :diamond: 6 :diamond: (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3, SB folds

Turn: ($9.55) 8 :club: (2 players)
UTG bets $6.50, Hero folds

On the turn, you've got roughly a 4:1 draw, and you're getting 2.4:1 direct odds. So we need to make about ten dollars on the river on average when we hit our draw (and lose nothing when we lose) to profit. We have $15.54 left in our stack, so if we know villain will never fold, we'll make money. If I respected this player's game, I'd lean towards folding, since getting the rest of his stack 60% of the time we hit seems optimistic.

bluff-raising the turn is also a possibility, but I wouldn't venture there until we know if this guy can fold anything.

Yeah thanks, all makes good sense, probably should of waited until i knew the UTG guy a bit better!

acky100 said:

Guy to my left was 70/10 type fish who was always going to call, so i flatted thinking i had lots of implied odds and that it was unlikely anyone behind me would 3bet etc.

I dont know if i should of raised UTG's cbet because i just dont think he's gonna fold that often considering his range is so strong,

Is it okay because of the fish to the left? Really unsure what's best here as you can tell!

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I play this exactly the same for exactly the same reasons.
We flat here to keep the fish in, if we hit we will make more money of him on average than we would of the preflop raiser. The same logic applies preflop.
UTGs range being tight is a milder but just as valid reason to flat.

As for the turn I fold.
We probably get the $10 we need on average on the river seeing as we'd be shoving $16 into a $23 pot and villain likely has an overpair.

But we are not drawing to the nuts. 4d/8d puts sets ahead of us and we are dead to Ax/Kxs.

JJ+ is a nice 18 combos of 4 to 1 odds
AdKd/AdTd/44/22/66/88 are 14 combos that leave us with 0-7 outs ranging from 0% to 14% equity. This will drag the odds we need upwards.
Not to mention when fullhouses and higher flushes hit negative implied odds kick in as we're not folding a busted draw we're getting stacked.

Nice hand well played

Without more info on his c-betting/turn barrel frequencies, nothing to do in this hand other than flat pre, call flop, fold turn imo.

If it were a CO opener we could certainly talk about getting aggro somewhere in the hand.

I lean towards folding pre. The guys range is tight and QJs is hoping for a flush or straight. If you have cbetting reads then it might be ok. For ex. he has low cb or high cb/low tcb.

I dont think is is cbetting light on that wet flop with air especially vs 2 other players and especially especially vs a station so you have to assume his range is 100% value or a big flush draw. All in anywhere post flop and youre drawing slim.

I dont think its a clear value situation so i would just avoid it. I dont think theres a need to make marginal plays at the micros when you get so many obvious +ev spots in other hands.

I would also leave the table or find a better seat. A 70vpip directly to my left is -ev.

dooydoo said:

I would also leave the table or find a better seat. A 70vpip directly to my left is -ev.

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A 70vpip is always massively +EV no matter were they are sat!

lol! i was thinking that myself deco, although i agree it sucks having them to our left, i dont think it means we should move tables straight away. We will have to tighten up which sucks a bit but, if theyre gonna pay us off when we do with hands like JJ then i dont mind.

Picture cracks me up! hahahah i dont know if its because im drunk or not but ive been laughing at that bird for 5 minutes straight now! hahaha

Drunk on Valentines Day ughohh there goes the roses

Gotta get my fix somehow if i cant play poker! Man im still pissing myself at that bird gif! LOOK AT ITS FACE HAHAHAHAHAA

There will be lots of other tables with 70vpips on your right at 25nl. Why put yourself in a bad spot when you can find a new table in a great spot.

dooydoo said:

There will be lots of other tables with 70vpips on your right at 25nl. Why put yourself in a bad spot when you can find a new table in a great spot.

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I agree

Im not moving tables and Im not folding pre.

acky100 said:

lol! i was thinking that myself deco, although i agree it sucks having them to our left, i dont think it means we should move tables straight away. We will have to tighten up which sucks a bit but, if theyre gonna pay us off when we do with hands like JJ then i dont mind.

Picture cracks me up! hahahah i dont know if its because im drunk or not but ive been laughing at that bird for 5 minutes straight now! hahaha

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Get over to the drunk thread!!!

dooydoo said:

There will be lots of other tables with 70vpips on your right at 25nl. Why put yourself in a bad spot when you can find a new table in a great spot.

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Really?
I guess the micros hasn't dried up as much as people say if opening multiple tables with 70vpips on your right every day is this easy.

It's rare I even see a 70vpip

dooydoo said:

There will be lots of other tables with 70vpips on your right at 25nl. Why put yourself in a bad spot when you can find a new table in a great spot.

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What is your problem with having a 70VPIP on your left? They making your life hell by habitually limping?

maily you are oop 8/9 times or 5/6 times vs them. Also you cant steal. You have to play tighter. You cant iso limpers more.

optimally you want a nit on your left.

dooydoo said:

maily you are oop 8/9 times or 5/6 times vs them. Also you cant steal. You have to play tighter. You cant iso limpers more.

optimally you want a nit on your left.

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You would actually prefer a nit on your left to a 70vpip?
Are you that bad OOP you can't beat a 70vpip? Value towning isn't so hard in or out of position. It's not like this 70/10 is going to be putting you in tough spots.

Deco said:

You would actually prefer a nit on your left to a 70vpip?
Are you that bad OOP you can't beat a 70vpip? Value towning isn't so hard in or out of position. It's not like this 70/10 is going to be putting you in tough spots.

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this`

dooydoo said:

maily you are oop 8/9 times or 5/6 times vs them. Also you cant steal. You have to play tighter. You cant iso limpers more.

optimally you want a nit on your left.

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more like this.

you can't play optimally with a station to your left, as dooydoo said we can't steal, iso or do much except value bet.

if we can't steal and make profit from our non showdown winnings at this table due to the 70/10 then we have to sit around and nut peddle, which won't happen often enough to make staying profitable imo.

Deco said:

You would actually prefer a nit on your left to a 70vpip?
Are you that bad OOP you can't beat a 70vpip? Value towning isn't so hard in or out of position. It's not like this 70/10 is going to be putting you in tough spots.

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its not really a matter of being bad or not, its a fact that everyone plays better IP than OOP, so staying at a table where you have to play a lot of pots OOP isn't the best idea..

yeah I'd rather have a nit to my left, because it means I can widen my range and play a lot more pots IP. if I know that the nit on my left's folding everything, then the my CO is pretty much my BT.

the main point is that if there's a better table(s) with a guy with the same skill level to our right, why stay at the table where he's on our left?

Deco said:

You would actually prefer a nit on your left to a 70vpip?
Are you that bad OOP you can't beat a 70vpip? Value towning isn't so hard in or out of position. It's not like this 70/10 is going to be putting you in tough spots.

Click to expand...

this`

dooydoo said:

I would also leave the table or find a better seat. A 70vpip directly to my left is -ev.

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I'm done for night.