$25 NLHE Full Ring: Nasty river, out of postion - action?

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RamdeeBen

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Ok; firstly I don't really like my flop sizing.

The original limper is a 75/14 not to worried about him. Just was obviously isoing him, didn't really expect mr.station to come along or I'd of bet slightly more pre.

The other guy however, is a passive station..running 23/3.


The river really is horrible..and I'm sure what we should do. I can't see theres any value in shoving river these sort of players can't call worse?:s I can only see better hands calling, lots of two pairs/straights/flushes?, checking kinda makes me believe it's as gross as shoving as he likely will bet river and it feels like I will just have to pay him off..

So my options are;

Shove river.
check/fold
check/call.

All of which of my options seem quite gross.


All don't seem great given pot odds now, I feel I've kinda put myself in a spot because of my sizing that means I gotta call of river bets and pay him off.

Thoughts on the hand & mainly what your river action is.


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (MP2) ($25)
CO ($20.05)
Button ($10)
SB ($25)
BB ($26.89)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($33.11)
MP1 ($15.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K
diamond.gif
, A
heart.gif

2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.25, CO calls $1.25, 3 folds, MP1 calls $1

Flop: ($4.10) 7
heart.gif
, J
diamond.gif
, A
club.gif
(3 players)
MP1 bets $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, CO calls $1.75, MP1 calls $1.50

Turn: ($9.35) 6
diamond.gif
(3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $6.75, CO calls $6.75, 1 fold

River: ($22.85) 10
diamond.gif
(2 players) Hero ?
 
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RamdeeBen

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The more I look at sizing now, the more I hate on all streets actually lol.

I think I should of raised $2/$2.50 on the flop and fired close to pot on the turn giving a nice/easier spot/shove bet..meh ..
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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Way more OTF, hate check/calling river cos he never bets worse or bluffs. I kind of want to check/fold.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Way more OTF, hate check/calling river cos he never bets worse or bluffs. I kind of want to check/fold.

I know flop bet was god awful. What you think on the flop? $2.50?

Kind of c/f river meaning this would be your line or the best line in this situation?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Like $3+ on the flop, more like $4. Bet turn, shove river.

As played you now just have awkwardness.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Yeah the pot on the flop is $4.35 so like at least $3.75. They're both less than full stacked so if they both call a $4 flop bet, just shove all turns.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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ramdeebam,the way things turned out here,id just check call the river. he probably has a weaker ace. dont think he caught a backdoor flush. are you putting him on trips? i assume he might have a weaker ace (Aq typpe of hand). or even maybe ak. your in a spot where you dont know if your shove is for value or a bluff right?
are you putting him on QK of diamonds? cause if hes calling with that on the flop and picks up a flush draw on the turn,your in a bad situation. yea check calling is probably the way to go here. even maybe check folding.????? to a passive station? id say ur good.it feels like your good.

SHOVE AND PRAY! final answer
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

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I don't think betting the river is going to achieve much. Villain's flop + turn call means he has at least an ace and if we bet we're hoping for what? AQ, A9, A8 + baby aces to call. Without breaking his hand range down precisely I would guess we're about 50/50...he's a passive calling station so we can find out which 50% he has because he's pretty much only ever going to be betting exactly the hands which beat us. I would check/fold. If he was betting AQ/AK/bluff on that river then pffft whatever, good for him and his newly acquired I'm no longer passive big balls.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I don't think betting the river is going to achieve much. Villain's flop + turn call means he has at least an ace and if we bet we're hoping for what? AQ, A9, A8 + baby aces to call. Without breaking his hand range down precisely I would guess we're about 50/50...he's a passive calling station so we can find out which 50% he has because he's pretty much only ever going to be betting exactly the hands which beat us. I would check/fold. If he was betting AQ/AK/bluff on that river then pffft whatever, good for him and his newly acquired I'm no longer passive big balls.

Board: Ac Jd 7h 6d Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.535% 36.05% 03.49% 31 3.00 { A2s+, A2o+ }
Hand 1: 60.465% 56.98% 03.49% 49 3.00 { AhKd }

Not to say that's all he's got on the river, but when we raise bigger otf and bet bigger on the turn, we should never ever check this river against a 23/3. Losing TONS of value there. Like someone's handing you a $5 bill and you're not taking it.

He's never folding any ace, sometimes calls you with a jack, sometimes with 9T if you commit him enough, sometimes with his QQ/KK that he slowplayed.
 
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nidal55

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Why worry? Things are not that complicated. First of all youre not afraid of any strong hand: He would raise the turn. Second runner-runner stuff is not of your concern unless he shoves over your river bet. If he called twice with 89 or got a crazy hand he wont shove unless hes got the flush. If you check call u may have to call like $10 or get bluffed with a shove. If u set your own price(which is what u have to do) he will call ur $6.5 for instance even with a10 which is the only hand you should really be concerned about. U loose less u dont get bluffed plus if hes a station hell call with aq or Ax sometimes.
 
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AlwaysPlanAhe

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He's never folding any ace, sometimes calls you with a jack, sometimes with 9T if you commit him enough, sometimes with his QQ/KK that he slowplayed.

I agree he's never folding Ax. Profiting from Jx seems a bit of a stretch, KJ/QJ probably look us up J9/J8 aren't definately calling and we lose to AJ, JT which will obv call 100%. I think the probability of QQ/KK/J9/J8 calling is about the same as villain having any straight or backdoor flush which cancels those out, AJ/TJ cancels out KJ/QJ. I think stoving Ax+ and flopped sets is about right which I shall do right now!

Wow you were right lol, Stove says we're 56.5:43.5 favourite and with villain being passive I guess we can't check and expect much value from the weaker part of his range so we have to bet.
 
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