$25 NLHE Full Ring: Missing value? Straight vs top pair

Hey there - due to being in similar situations to this in ring games fairly regularly, I'm wondering if I have a leak around not extracting value with either the nuts or close to it? This hand happened to involve a series of limps, but similar situations happen when I'm raising w/ decent equity in position etc. Thanks for your thoughts.

888 Poker $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players

Hand History Converter

SB: $30.40
Hero (BB): $30.45
UTG: $16.36
UTG+1: $30.00
UTG+2: $25.58
MP1: $35.18
MP2: $33.80
CO: $8.01
BTN: $80.34

Pre Flop: ($0.45) Hero is BB with 4 6
UTG calls $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.30, MP2 calls $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.80) J 5 3 (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.90, MP2 folds, SB folds

Turn: ($3.60) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50

River: ($6.60) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $3.60, Hero raises to $7.50, MP1 calls $3.90

Sorry - meant to post results

SB: $30.40
Hero (BB): $30.45
UTG: $16.36
UTG+1: $30.00
UTG+2: $25.58
MP1: $35.18
MP2: $33.80
CO: $8.01
BTN: $80.34

Pre Flop: ($0.45) Hero is BB with 4 6
UTG calls $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.30, MP2 calls $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.80) J 5 3 (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.90, MP2 folds, SB folds

Turn: ($3.60) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50

River: ($6.60) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $3.60, Hero raises to $7.50, MP1 calls $3.90

Final Pot: $21.60
Hero shows 4 6
MP1 mucks A 4
Hero wins $20.52
(Rake: $1.08)

Same issue with missing value here, or "shut up it's all good mang"?

Thinking I should be shoving as I did put him on a weak-ish ace.

888 Poker $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players

MP1: $10.50
Hero (MP2): $36.01
CO: $23.53
BTN: $32.88
SB: $38.37
BB: $50.75
UTG: $11.25
UTG+1: $32.75
UTG+2: $22.89

Pre Flop: ($0.45) Hero is MP2 with 5 5
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, CO calls $0.90, 2 folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.85) A A 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.42, CO folds, BB calls $1.42

Turn: ($5.69) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.94, BB calls $1.94

River: ($9.57) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9.57, BB calls $9.57

Final Pot: $28.71
Hero shows 5 5
BB mucks A 3
Hero wins $27.28
(Rake: $1.43)

Why bet small on the turn? You are targeting a range of Ax. That range is never folding regardless of size. Bet turn bigger so you can extract more OTR.

First hand as well. Larger OTT and larger OTR. I prefer to bet river myself though as opposed to X/R'ing.

ScottishMatt said:

Why bet small on the turn? You are targeting a range of Ax. That range is never folding regardless of size. Bet turn bigger so you can extract more OTR.

First hand as well. Larger OTT and larger OTR. I prefer to bet river myself though as opposed to X/R'ing.

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Yes makes sense, thanks, this is what I want confirmation on - larger bet sizing OTT and OTR w/ nuts or close to it.

It must be something to do with not wanting medium strength hands to fold, but I should trust the range I'm assigning villain esp when I'm confident in both these spots about range. I find myself betting 3/4 pot more often when I'm not sure if I'm ahead and around 1/2 pot when I'm almost a lock hand. This is a pretty exploitable line eh if people catch on, but they so rarely do! Might try switching to 2/3 pot all the time to balance this leak out, then ship the river

1. First hand is horrible. Betting into 5 people here is uber bad. Having binked turn, you need to extract a ton more value. No hand that calls the flop is folding the turn, so bet close to pot.

Check-raising the river is fine if you think he will value bet worse or bluff bricked diamonds but I'd go bigger anyway.

2. Flop is w/e, having binked again you need to extract way more. Bet pot and shove the river.

baudib1 said:

1. First hand is horrible. Betting into 5 people here is uber bad. Having binked turn, you need to extract a ton more value. No hand that calls the flop is folding the turn, so bet close to pot.

Check-raising the river is fine if you think he will value bet worse or bluff bricked diamonds but I'd go bigger anyway.

2. Flop is w/e, having binked again you need to extract way more. Bet pot and shove the river.

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Thanks baudib. 1st hand - yep, can see I needed to extract way more value on turn, but maybe he's folding his flush draw to a pot size bet there? It was cheap for him to see the turn.

Also - I bet into 5 people on the flop with an OESD to either win it there or otherwise build the pot for when my straight arrives (no, I don't assume it always will, or do this every time in a limped pot). I figured a flush draw or TP will call, and he did.

2nd hand - what is "w/e"? Totally agree I should have bet pot on turn and shoved river. But isn't my flop bet standard c-bet against an isolated opponent who may not have the Ace?

baudib1 said:

1. First hand is horrible. Betting into 5 people here is uber bad. Having binked turn, you need to extract a ton more value. No hand that calls the flop is folding the turn, so bet close to pot.

Check-raising the river is fine if you think he will value bet worse or bluff bricked diamonds but I'd go bigger anyway.

2. Flop is w/e, having binked again you need to extract way more. Bet pot and shove the river.

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Echoing these sentiments. Your value bet sizing should reflect a thorough understanding of SPR and be a clear attempt at getting it in OTR. Balancing your bluffing ranges is irrelevant at those stakes

Henreiman said:

Echoing these sentiments. Your value bet sizing should reflect a thorough understanding of SPR and be a clear attempt at getting it in OTR. Balancing your bluffing ranges is irrelevant at those stakes

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Sounds like I need to go back to "Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I by Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta, and Ed Miller" and really digest those SPR chapters.