$25 NLHE Full Ring: Line check please

BB is 14/10 reg, not bothered about the short stacker.




poker stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1485510
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP2: $33.78
CO: $37.95
BTN: $10.64
SB: $25.00
BB: $33.50
UTG: $44.25
UTG+1: $7.46
UTG+2: $25.00
Hero (MP1): $28.38

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP1 with 8 :heart: 8 :diamond:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 8 :spade: J :spade: 3 :spade: (3 players)
BB bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, BB raises to $7.75, HERO ?????

Has 33 in his range, not JJ, has relatively few FDs, and has AsJx/KsJx once in a while. Conservative range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.288% 40.15% 01.14% 4770 135.00 { 33, AsQs, AsTs, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, T9s }
Hand 1: 58.712% 57.58% 01.14% 6840 135.00 { 8d8h }

Add in dead money from bad shorty who will have bad equity vs you guys...ship it.

Thanks Chuck, what im wondering is as he's in the BB he might come along a bit more with some suited connector type hands, how many of these should we add in to his range? I'm guessing this is probably opponent specific as i'd be folding a lot of suited connectors in his spot but there is a fish in. I can't work out how to get pokerstove to give just the suited cards i want like AQss-ATss, when i try it includes all suits.

I guess it's still an easy shove with the dead money and anyways suited connectors that he has here will literally be 1 combo each...

Bottom right of PS when you're selecting hands. You need to DEselect the ones you don't want.

As for the hand, I'm not sure!

Ahh, swear i tried messing around with that to no avail! Probably just me being stupid, cheers bud!

Ship.

Flop: ($2.35) 8 :spade: J :spade: 3 :spade: (3 players)
BB bets $1.25, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, BB raises to $7.75, Hero raises to $27.63 all in, BTN calls $6.39 all in, BB calls $19.88

Turn: ($67.50) 9 :spade: (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($67.50) 3 :diamond: (3 players - 2 are all in)

Cheers all - was just checking i did the right thing! sucking out is fun.

BB showed 45ss btw

If villain is a reg you should have a better read on his flatting range multiway, especially OOP. My default range for a 14/10 is something like what I initially posted, but even if it's considerably wider then it's still a pretty easy stack.

Remember that I'm not including AsJx etc which drastically improve our equity:


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.688% 51.04% 00.65% 10611 135.00 { 33, AsQs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, T9s, 7s6s, 6s5s, 5s4s}
Hand 1: 48.312% 47.66% 00.65% 9909 135.00 { 8d8h }

there's no way BB is flatting 54s before he's flatting JJ, but it doesn't change the hand much anyways. AsJx is probably in his range too.


it still tilts me when you guys say "stack" instead of "jam" tho

Just a little terminology pointer.

People keep talking about the "dead money" in the pot.

There is no dead money in that pot. There was a bet, a raise and a 3bet on a pretty action board.

Dead money is money that has been given up on. Why would you think its been given up on after he 3bets over your raise?

There is certainly money in the pot, but this isnt dead money. If anything, this is live money.

You can bluff to collect dead money.. you would never bluff over this 3bet so this cant be dead money.

i suppose it's my fault for opening the floodgates of the terminology/semantics debate, sorry about that


stu: what is your source for the definition of "dead money"? i've always been under the impression that balugawhale or whoever came up with the three reasons for betting (value, bluff, dead money) was defining dead money as being money that can not exit the pot.

example:

you and i are playing 12-card NLO with 5 river cards and 100 BB effective stacks. i'm in the SB and post .5 BBs, you're in the BB and post 1 BB, and i'm first to act.

if i have 49.9999% equity against your range (hopefully you don't create a 12-card NLO simulator in order to argue whether or not this is possible), it's +EV for me to openjam (it may not be the MOST +EV action, but its +EV anyway) because of the 1.5 BBs of dead money in the pot. this money hasn't been "given up on" because you never "gave up on" your BB (you haven't even looked at your cards yet!). however, it's money that's in the middle and can't get out, and i am using it as overlay to make my 49.9999% equity enough to profitably get it in.

if you do not agree and want to create a distinction for "dead money" (so you would have had to have folded out of turn in order for the 1.5BBs to be "dead money") and "live money", i'll entertain the discussion for at least a few more posts, but i doubt the term is going to catch on (or it won't until you become more popular than balugawhale)

Dead money is money that has been given up on.

Thats why cbetting works so well (or used to)

Your not making anything that wants to continue fold, your just just getting all the hands that cant continue to fold.

So the only way there is dead money in this hand is if he can be 3bet bluffing.

Incidentally I have it on good authority that "betting to collect dead money" is not a reason to bet. Baluga changed his mind and there are only 2 reasons to bet

Value

Bluff

but dead money adds sub sections to each of those rather than being a separate reason in itself, because anytime you are betting to collect dead money, you are either value betting or bluffing.

Stu_Ungar said:

Thats why cbetting works so well (or used to)

Your not making anything that wants to continue fold, your just just getting all the hands that cant continue to fold.

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Just to elaborate on this a bit. People float more these days.

So against someone who floats, they will continue with a wider range of hands (some are air they intend to bluff later in the hand with)

So when you cbet against a player who floats like this, there is less dead money in the pot as there are more hands he will continue with.

Stu_Ungar said:

So when you cbet against a player who floats like this, there is less dead money in the pot as there are more hands he will continue with.

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Just creating more dead money for later streets imo.

WVHillbilly said:

Just creating more dead money for later streets imo.

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This is it.

Dead money got its own catagory, in the past, simply because of how profitable cbetting was.

But as players float more, you need to start thinking, is my 22 on this board a value bet? Is my AJ a value bet against his range?

If I bet 89s here as a bluff (with BD equity) should I fire the turn regardless of picking up equity or not?

Because if he continues with a wide range that includes a lot of air then he is creating dead money on the next street if he intends to fold to a second barrell.

In the past people folded so much that you could just think "Im betting to collect dead money here" but really you were thinking "Im bluffing and I dont expect to get floated so this is very profitable so I will pick up a lot of dead money"

Stu_Ungar said:

because anytime you are betting to collect dead money, you are either value betting or bluffing.

Click to expand...

what if you're betting at equilibrium (you are exactly 50% vs. opponent's range)?


like, i guess the term "dead money" just tilts you in the same way that "stack xx" tilts me, but it still seems like the best term to describe what's happening with the money that's already in the pot. i guess you could just call it "money" e.g. i'm jamming in this spot because i have enough equity and because there's enough overlay from the (dead) money in the pot

vanquish said:

what if you're betting at equilibrium (you are exactly 50% vs. opponent's range)?


like, i guess the term "dead money" just tilts you in the same way that "stack xx" tilts me, but it still seems like the best term to describe what's happening with the money that's already in the pot. i guess you could just call it "money" e.g. i'm jamming in this spot because i have enough equity and because there's enough overlay from the (dead) money in the pot

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Easy game Vol 1 by balugawhale

Chapter One _ reasons for betting.

"Capitalization of Dead Money. This is defined as making the opponent fold, whether his hand is better or worse, and collecting the money in the pot."

If you cant make your opponent fold then you are not collecting dead money.

If dead money isn't a reason to bet, then "bluffing" needs to be expanded. There are times when you clearly have the best hand but don't expect to be called by worse, betting is still correct.

Theoretically, we should play in a manner that makes our opponent play incorrectly if we could see his cards face up. Let's say we have TT-QQ on a 922r board and our tight, straightforward opponent has AKo. If we bet half-pot and he folds, he is playing correctly, but we still need to bet and he's not going to float.

We're not bluffing per se, but we still want him to fold his equity in the pot, which is not negligible (24%). Getting someone to fold his equity in the pot is pretty much what we do when we're bluffing.

baudib1 said:

If dead money isn't a reason to bet, then "bluffing" needs to be expanded.

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Thats exactly it. It stops being a reason in itself to bet but adds subsections to value and bluff reasons.

So your Bluffing but also collecting dead money or your Value betting but also collecting dead money but the primary reason is value or bluff.