$25 NLHE Full Ring: KK on a raised A-high flop

$25 NL HE Full Ring: KK on a raised A-high flop

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 26/18/1.2

full tilt poker $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 670216
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $36.66
BTN: $25.33
SB: $27.37
BB: $25.06
UTG: $15.45
UTG+1: $32.99
Hero (UTG+2): $41.00
MP1: $13.90
MP2: $20.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+2 with K K
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 4 folds

Flop: ($1.85) A 4 T (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, MP2 raises to $3, Hero ??

TBH at this point I cant really see what he has. Obviously an Ace is my first suspicion, but an ace worth raising? AT?

Can I ever call profitably in this spot?

Can I reraise? If he has overplayed A-rag will he call anyway?

Is folding too weak?

What does this player raise here that I beat?

There are so many Aces in his pre flop calling range but he would have to put you on a rather large Ace unless you have a crazy table image. With the fairly dry board you would expect him to call behind you if he had hit a set

I really cant see anything that we beat here other than a bluff. But if we have been fairly tight from EP I don't see what he wants to push us off other than JJ QQ KK which is not a huge part of our range...

I wouldn't assign a very high probability that he's bluffing unless he's made this same move frequently or you have been folding to re-raises. I wouldn't rule out a set because if you have AK/AQ he would figure to get paid off by re-raising.

I don't think folding here would be too weak. The only way you can call or re-raise here is if you have some good reads. Its confusing though, because you wouldn't think Ax would raise this board and I see absolutely no reason why a set would re-raise this board.

Bet/fold.

His line looks really weird, and he's usually got two pair or better or air but because we're OOP I just don't see any +EV way of continuing with the hand.

Is folding too weak?

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I'm not sure you can continue this hand without being willing to play for stacks with 2nd pair, so no I don't think folding is too weak.

Q?: What was your plan when you bet the flop? Did you make the bet with a plan for if you get raised on this board against this player? I ask for two reasons, one is that that's always one should try to have a plan in mind when making a bet, and two because against someone with some level of aggression most of the time, but not always, I plan to ch/cl this flop.


In a lot of ways his flop raise doesn't make much sense unless 1) he does so hoping that you don't have one and will fold, or, 2) he has a set/two pair and hopes you have an Ace and are willing to get it in, but with two pair+ hands if you don't have an Ace he kills any future value by folding you out now. If he has two pair+ it's better to call your bet and try to get more value later, imo. Not that he's necessarily thinking that way.

What gets me thinking is his stats, they seem pretty high for full ring, not that I play any FR anymore but wouldn't that be equivalent to a 40/30/2 in 6-max?

If he has a weak A it's possible he wants to end the hand now, get you folding or continuing so he knows what to do, it's cheaper than having to call 2 or 3 streets to find out when he's not sure. He could have a stronger ace such as AJ-AQ o/s, and of course AT.

Also that's a pretty standard bluff against tags @ 25NL, so I think most of his range here are weak aces and bluffs, his stats fit the profile for that kind of aggression, you're ahead of that range (assuming he's not a calling station and folds weak aces to a re-raise here) so I would just re-raise planning to fold to a shove and c/f turn if he calls, it's the most cost effective if you don't want to fold as you'd clearly bet more on the turn than the amount you re-raise with here.

How come you play 25NL, I thought you played really high stakes seeing how much theory etc. you know!

Why is so hard to fold KK if A is flopped?

ljove said:

Why is so hard to fold KK if A is flopped?

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Because people represent aces raising cbets all the time without having them? Because they might have an ace with weak kicker that they won't play to the end?

This is a perfect example of why cbetting KK on an A-high board isn't a great idea. If you check the flop here you can continue against a wider villain range, and one that likely becomes profitable.

I honestly don't think it matters much what hands he can make this raise with. Do you really want to play for stacks with not even top pair? That's gonna be -EV for sure. 44 and TT are definitely in his range, I don't think many A's are really there since he's fairly taggish. I'd expect him to let go of most A's to your EP raise, though AK/AQs will flat at times.

Even if I had AK here, I would probably just cut loose rather than stacking off on a marginal holding, making note of how often he's showing this type of aggression on the flop, and adjusting accordingly.

ljove said:

Why is so hard to fold KK if A is flopped?

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Because people level themselves

if you just c/c this mase, how far are you calling it down to?

I probably don't want to go too far with it. It's going to be somewhat villain dependent, cuz there are some guys that just blow up at any hint they can win a pot, so v them I'm c/c'ing 3 streets and getting all varianced up.

Vs most players though, I'd check and call the flop, check the turn and if he fires again, probably just fold. If he checks behind, I'd bet/fold the river.

Mase31683 said:

I probably don't want to go too far with it. It's going to be somewhat villain dependent, cuz there are some guys that just blow up at any hint they can win a pot, so v them I'm c/c'ing 3 streets and getting all varianced up.

Vs most players though, I'd check and call the flop, check the turn and if he fires again, probably just fold. If he checks behind, I'd bet/fold the river.

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Personally I think that line is too weak, calling here then checking the turn is screaming I'm weak, I want out! (or a monster hand trapping, but how often does that happen) so villain will bet for sure, with any two, he seems that type judging from his stats. Better fold than call and c/f.

Therefor he wins with all his range, whereas with a re-raise on the flop we fold his bluffs and quite possibly weak aces, second pairs etc. too.

It doesn't have to be a huge re-raise me thinks, we just raise $5 to double his raise instead of calling with $2, so $5 bet to win $5.85, if we win in this situation vs this type of opponent slightly less than half the time it's +EV. I think we do.

ComplexPlaya said:

Personally I think that line is too weak, calling here then checking the turn is screaming I'm weak, I want out! (or a monster hand trapping, but how often does that happen) so villain will bet for sure, with any two, he seems that type judging from his stats. Better fold than call and c/f.

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Unless I'm mistaken, he's intending to play it as a WA/WB. Not cbet and check-call as many streets as villain is expected to bluff.
Looking weak is why WA/WB works, instead of folding out the bottom of villain's range it gains equity from it.

With that being said, I still bet/fold because we're OOP.

Pokerkid, I like your bet/fold line rather than to c/c but when you bet the flop and he floats are you just planning to c/f turn, b/f turn or c/c turn and c/f river?