$25 NLHE Full Ring: JJ SB oop with a feesh in the Pot

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem (9 players)
SB Hero: $48.35
BB: $22.26
UTG: $30.07 (sitting out)
UTG+1: $25.62
MP: $25.35
MP+1: $7.35
MP+2: $88.31 VPIP 50% PFR 22% AGG1.8 HANDS 108
CO: $25.29 VPIP 12% PFR 10% AGG 5.6 HANDS 1,800
BTN: $24.65

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB and dealt
3 folds, MP+2 raises to $0.75, CO raises to $2.25, BTN folds, Hero calls $2.15, BB folds, MP+2 calls $1.50

Flop: ($7) (4 players)
Hero checks, MP+2 checks, CO checks

Turn: ($7) (4 players)
Hero,Ok maybe not a good call Pre but i know like almost 75% positive that Co is trying to ISO Fish and i am 99% positive fish is calling pre. But do we
A) Bet out on turn and how much since they both checked flop.
B) Check and call if someone bets out.
C) Check reraise if they bet out.
D) 3Bet pre to Re-Iso the Fish.

If you 4bet pre do you expect the fish to call?

There is no doubt about betting the turn with a fish in the hand here. Something decent sized too, like $5. Isolater is not ever checking that flop against a big fish and two people when he has like QQ here.

As for 4-betting pre like WV said, could go both ways. Flatting is totally fine here against standard fish, but if this fish is never going to fold without seeing a flop, then getting heads up in a 4 bet pot would be so much more fun and anything else would be bad!

Preflop call is fine, as played you have to bet the turn, I like something close to pot sized.

I don't like calling pre

Interesting spot pre imo - well, better than, "should I call a shove with the nuts?"

I could go either way pre without more info, but JJ OOP 3 way could be tricky unless you flop and turn as you did (not often). The question is, how sure are we that the nit is isolating here? Cos vs his 3bet range (I don't know, but I'm guessing tight 2%?) we are not happy to see him shove over if we 4bet. Anyways, going with your read, I prefer to 4bet I think, cos fish may well still call.

As played, you are betting the turn expecting to be ahead almost always (unless fishy-wishy got lucky).

Edit: like acky said, about $5 or so.

Flatting pre makes playing this flop very difficult. Even checking the flop, what exactly is your play if the nit cbets? Raising bets the fish out the pot and calling can leave you in some horrible turn spots. Is anyone against leading the flop (as played pre) to get value from the fish and because it is unlikely the nit will bluff with worse? Leading quite large imo to reduce pot odds for the nit?

As played on the turn, you have to bet for value, again quite large, but I don't think this line is extracting enough value given the perfect flop/turn.

Pre flop I think I would 4b and cbet most flops, but I would never be happy to be raised.

I prefer call pre-flop.Even though he is a fish I doubt he call a cold 4-bet with random two cards and reg probably won't shove light. Also it leaves your hand fairly under-repped As played agree with all of above, bet turn.

Clear 4-bet or fold pre, especially if you don't have a plan postflop, which you obviously don't since you didn't bet the flop to trap the fish in.

4-betting pre is crap for us if the fish is gonna fold all his junk he would come along with anyways to the 3bet. I'd much rather have a fish and a regular in the pot here with JJ even oop than just 4bet and collect the dead money/get crushed by anything the 12/10 calls/shoves with

4-betting pre is amazing for us if fish is so spewy he will call with any junk when we pop it up to around $6

acky100 said:

4-betting pre is crap for us if the fish is gonna fold all his junk he would come along with anyways to the 3bet. I'd much rather have a fish and a regular in the pot here with JJ even oop than just 4bet and collect the dead money/get crushed by anything the 12/10 calls/shoves with

4-betting pre is amazing for us if fish is so spewy he will call with any junk when we pop it up to around $6

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+1. Even fish no not to call light if we 4-bet and your in ytouble if nitty player decides to do anything that doesn't involve folding.

Then fold pre, you're not going to play this profitably vs. the reg.

Really? Im always flatting JJ in the blinds vs a reg with a high fold to 3-bet% who probably steals a bit more in later positions and isolates fish.

This is something that nutsinho once explained best: Flatting 3-bets from the blinds vs. regs with TT-QQ is bad because regs will put you on this range. It's hard enough playing out of position, it becomes even harder playing OOP when you have exactly what he thinks you have.

Just 4b or fold pre, flatting JJ oop vs a TAG/nit reg makes your life very hard postflop and you should pick up the pot a high% of the time pre as the reg is definitely iso'ing the fish wider then QQ+, so you may have a slight equity edge pre but not enough to outweigh his positional advantage and initiative as the preflop aggressor. 100% bet turn, $5 minimum, the fish will pay you off with all draws and all T's, maybe even 88-99.