$25 NLHE Full Ring: Idiot end straight on paired board

bitowl

bitowl

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Hero opens in early position with 76ss

CO calls, everyone else folds

flop: 89Tccd (club club diamond)

cbet 2/3 pot, call

turn: 8h

cbet 2/3 pot, call

river 2s

do we check call, bet fold, bet call? We're 100bbs deep so if we bet 2/3 and get jammed on we need roughly 25% equity. Villian isn't a limping passive fish but likely not a real "cash reg" either.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Fold pre. You're going to be OOP with 7 high. Unlike with double broadways, you usually flop 0 equity against any made hand. And it's really bad to play speculative hands OOP because you can't take free cards/check back when you want to. Pairs also don't have any SDV and are pure bluff-catchers. Position is super valuable, especially when you have way less fold equity at these stakes preflop. River is a trivial value bet; we have the best hand here almost everytime. 2/3 pot is good. Not ever calling a jam.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Yeah we just can't open 76s in EP. For all the times you flop gin (like you did here) you're going to have to check fold so many more times.

As played, villain almost never has full houses right? If he had two pair or a set on the flop, I imagine he would raise since it is so wet. I think Villain is probably on a missed draw, but you might be able to squeeze value from a T or maybe even a weirdly played overpair...
 
Aces2w1n

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If he got an 8 he wouldve jammed turn or reraised due to flush draw
 
bitowl

bitowl

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Fold pre. You're going to be OOP with 7 high. Unlike with double broadways, you usually flop 0 equity against any made hand. And it's really bad to play speculative hands OOP because you can't take free cards/check back when you want to. Pairs also don't have any SDV and are pure bluff-catchers.

I agree its borderline and table dependent but I don't think you appreciate that our range from villians POV is going to look super strong as we 3 barrrel them off their middle pairs, pair+gutshots and top pair weak kickers. But yea, if it's a table of fish who call 3 streets with QJ on J4452 when no flush draws miss then I'm not barreling.
 
Aces2w1n

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You just better hope he pays u down with 2 pair.. hes no way hes got overpair tho unless JJ

If hes a sticky type and overvalues hands u got a good villain ..

Personally check and snap call his bluff.. sure we can b beat but not enough.
 
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MinhANguyen

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I agree its borderline and table dependent but I don't think you appreciate that our range from villians POV is going to look super strong as we 3 barrrel them off their middle pairs, pair+gutshots and top pair weak kickers. But yea, if it's a table of fish who call 3 streets with QJ on J4452 when no flush draws miss then I'm not barreling.

You are going to be lighting money on fire if you try to three-barrel people off top pair. And people call down 3 barrels lighter than top pair occasionally. Sometimes they just won't believe you and put you on pure air/AK. Also, people at 25NL do not think in ranges. Hell, I doubt even most 100NL+ players do. They think "I haz top pair. Call. I haz overpair. Call." And how do you know someone has TP weak kicker? Even some 6-max players don't 3-bet JJ/AQ/AK at 100NL. I imagine that full ring players are much more passive and 3-bet these at a much less frequent %.

The profitability of a hand is a combination of card advantage, position, and skill advantage. You have 7 high. You're OOP. And unless you're a world-class player, you are spewing money by opening 76s in EP. Even then, I doubt even very strong players can profit by opening this.
 
bitowl

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Sounds like you play on bovada where all stakes play like 5nl. You know that's not a normal poker site right? lol
 
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MinhANguyen

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If you think you have suchhhh a big edge over everyone else that you can profitably open 7 high in EP full ring, why don't you play 6-max? 6-max favors those with strong postflop skill and skill in general.

You just seem to be getting worked up over getting constructive criticism that opening 7 high is not profitable, no matter how good you are. And if you're playing against such "good" players like you mention and try to 3-barrel with 6/7/8 high, they're going to bluff-catch you and see through your FOS lines. Nobody triples AA/KK/QQ/JJ on this board runout against solid players. What worse hands can you expect to get called by by a "normal" good player? None. You aren't repping anything here but 1010. 100NL Bovada, especially Zone, have pretty decent players fwiw.
 
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Trabendo_daze

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Bitowl I play on Bovada too and I can attest that although there are certainly plenty of fish, there are more than enough good players.

Sure dude, if you really want to open 76s UTG go ahead. I'd love to see a filtered HUD with your results of opening low SC UTG 9-max. Looooove it.
 
bitowl

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why don't you play 6-max?

I do play 6max

I'm not reacting to constructive criticism but to your authoritative unhelpful comments.

Also, people at 25NL do not think in ranges. Hell, I doubt even most 100NL+ players do. They think "I haz top pair. Call. I haz overpair. Call." And how do you know someone has TP weak kicker? Even some 6-max players don't 3-bet JJ/AQ/AK at 100NL.

You realize how stupid this sounds? Especially coming from a degen who used his financial aid money to make a deposit.
 
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MinhANguyen

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I do play 6max

I'm not reacting to constructive criticism but to your authoritative unhelpful comments.



You realize how stupid this sounds? Especially coming from a degen who used his financial aid money to make a deposit.

Lol keep opening 76s UTG then since you think you're some world-class player that can outplay everyone with 7 high in EP OOP.

It's true. You can barrel off your roll all you want against fish who will call down with top pair. You're assuming the majority of MICRO player are extremely competent and are capable of thinking in ranges. Micro 25 cent blind players. You're acting like they are professional players or at least semi-pro regs, or very strong players. These are the only players who think in ranges.
If they were that good then you would get crushed at these stakes. Which I seriously doubt is the case.

And uh, that is totally irrelevant to the thread. That is a personal attack, and an invalid one at that. I don't see how depositing spare financial money in order to give a passion a shot and see where it goes is degen. I had $2k leftover to spend on whatever I needed/wanted. I was sure that i was a favorite in the game. What you expect me to wait around until im old and have a full-time job before taking a shot? It turned out very well thank you very much. No it's not stupid. I've logged like 250-350k hands and I see the stupid calls people make even against 3 barrels, and their unwillingness to let TP go. Go ahead and keep barreling off your stacks with 7 high.
 
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bitowl

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And uh, that is totally irrelevant to the thread. That is a personal attack, and an invalid one at that.

I started with a $500 deposit from my financial aid to play poker somewhere around October. First three times I played on Bovada, I lost about $200 playing 5NL/10NL/25NL due to tilt/being underrolled. Withdrew with the intention to not play again until I was maybe out of college. Friend sort of persuaded me to try again with my financial aid money, and so I came back for the last time deciding that if I failed again, I wouldn't play until I was out of college. When I quit after the 3rd time, I did miss playing poker just days after and still thought about it weeks later.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/losing-interest-in-poker-277805/


It's relevant because you're making authoritative claims despite only playing higher than 25nl since last november on the most fish site. The probability of you being around in 6 months is near 0 because you don't know what you're talking about.

Opening SC in EP is controversial but I'm not gonna let some degen kid whos run good for a few months bully me. Feel free to leave the thread.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Get out of here you disgusting troll, bitowl. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're way out of line dissing people who are just giving you advice. If you can't take advice, don't ask for it. And certainly don't respond like a 4th grader when you do get it and we don't approve of your play. There's another site for you and it's not here.

Where are the mods?
 
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MinhANguyen

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https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/losing-interest-in-poker-277805/


It's relevant because you're making authoritative claims despite only playing higher than 25nl since last november on the fishiest site. The probability of you being around in 6 months is near 0 because you don't know what you're talking about.

Opening SC in EP is controversial but I'm not gonna let some degen kid whos run good for a few months bully me. Feel free to leave the thread.

I've played 100NL, and am a consistent winner over 1/3 million hands overall on Bovada. I'm sticking around after 9xing my bankroll, and for a long time thank you very much.

If you think you can play 7 high profitably in full ring, I wouldn't be surprised to see you gone within a month. Lol I wasn't bullying you. The one who started on the personal attacks was you, not me. You remind me of this one medium stakes reg guy on 2+2 forums that never agrees with anyone else, gives shit counterarguments, and gets butthurt whenever people prove him wrong. I don't mind leaving this kind of thread.

Thanks Metsdude.
 
Trabendo_daze

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I'm just defending someone who gives and takes advice respectfully. This is a forum not to boost your ego but to get better at poker. If you're not going to join in on that mutual goal without taking stupid personal attacks at people who don't deserve them, buzz off.
 
bitowl

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I'm just defending someone who gives and takes advice respectfully.

If you read back through the comments you'll see I was respectful and just stating my opinion and the degen kid was escalating with condescending comments.
 
bitowl

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Personally check and snap call his bluff.. sure we can b beat but not enough.

Really what I wanted was a discussion of whether check call had any merit over bet folding.

There is also some irony in the above disagreement since in reality, I was actually the CO in this hand with a full house & villian check called the river. I just thought it would be an interesting hand from the POV of the opener.
 
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Why even post the hand if you can't take criticism (constructive or not). You are asking for someone's opinion of your play. He gave you his opinion.....opening with 67s from EP is not a great play and then explained why he holds that opinion. He was not condescending or disrespectful until you claimed he didn't understand the play because he doesn't play on a "real" poker site (really?). I read a lot of his posts and he never sounds condescending. He always gives solid advice and explanation. You just got mad or defensive because he didn't agree with you that your play was masterful.
Before you say I'm looking out for a friend or something, minh and I don't know each other and have never traded a single comment on here.

O yea. Personally, I think you should lead on the river. You may get value out of TP, over pair, 8, or maybe even 2nd pair since the river was such a brick. I don't think you are behind in this spot enough to actually worry about a big raise. Almost all villain hands would check behind.
 
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IPlay

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lollllllll, 76s is a bad open from EP in full ring and its not even close. 25NL on Stars can't be that tough with players opening this. With that said I am sure the regs are thinking in terms of hands ranges at 25NL+ on Stars. Kind of silly to think they aren't.
 
Trabendo_daze

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The fact that you were defending someone else's play to the point where you were insulting people...lol dude.
 
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mottotom27

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lollllllll, 76s is a bad open from EP in full ring and its not even close. 25NL on Stars can't be that tough with players opening this. With that said I am sure the regs are thinking in terms of hands ranges at 25NL+ on Stars. Kind of silly to think they aren't.

Yea never ever opening 76s from EP, even from 6max it's kinda loose. Sure if you're like Phil Galfond or something you might be able to make it profitable, but just about anyone else would struggle. TJs can be an open sometimes, but 67s is going way too far.

At the same time, I disagree with the suggestion that none of the regs at 25nl can hand read. Of course they can! At least on stars, there are a lot of competent regs who are more than capable of folding to lots of aggression. That's not to say there aren't any sticky players who won't let go of a pair - of course there are, but there are also plenty of half-decent regs with hand-reading skills. On Bovada it's completely different. 25nl on Bovada is like 5nl on stars, so that might be where the confusion is coming from (5nl is a lot harder to bluff)
 
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Ok ignoring the preflop decision for a moment, looking at the pot as played it seems like a clear spot to bet/fold. But really if you could be more clear with the size of the pot it would be helpful. you said you opened, but you didn't say if it was a minopen, a 2.5x, 3x, 3.5x or whatever. Then it would be a lot easier to figure out the stacks remaining and whether you can bet/fold this spot or just shove.
 
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