$25 NLHE Full Ring: Calling off 100bb with Aces on low paired board

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 17/4/4

This is a .10/.25 hand I played at Carbon yesterday. Villain is Tight Passive preflop based on his stats 17/4/4 ; I have about 250 hands on him. I have him labeled as a weak player, pure bluffs are out of the question. I hate to be the guy who punts off +100bb with just a pair but there are there enough overpairs in his range for me to call this?

We are surely ahead here. There are many hands we can beat.

Auto call sir.

raise more preflop, especially being deep vs small blind. make it at least 13bb. as played OTF it's one the easiest calls ever. a weak player might raise with 99-QQ (or even any pair) because he thinks he's ahead and he's afraid of overcards coming on the turn. 88 would probably just call and slowplay and A3s is about the only 3 he could have in his range. overall we're miles ahead so folding would be criminal. even if he's ahead we can hit an ace from space

mottotom27 said:

raise more preflop, especially being deep vs small blind. make it at least 13bb. as played OTF it's one the easiest calls ever. a weak player might raise with 99-QQ (or even any pair) because he thinks he's ahead and he's afraid of overcards coming on the turn. 88 would probably just call and slowplay and A3s is about the only 3 he could have in his range. overall we're miles ahead so folding would be criminal. even if he's ahead we can hit an ace from space

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Actually my raise was a 3 bet. He limp called 10x.

I don't knowfor sure but you are only afraid of quads, and 3 combinations set of eights IMO. There are lots of bad played Kings, Queens, Jacks (even AK) and maybe smaller overs scared of an overcard on the turn. There could be some suited 3s but rarely. Usually this type of players will setmine like their life depends on it or call preflop to "trap"

i meant you should make your 3 bet sizing larger. your 3 bet was way too small it's more like a tournament 3 bet than a cash game one. you should typically 3 bet 3x the initial raiser at the very minimum, probably 3.5x here due to the limper being there as well and not having absolute position in the hand in the BB. this makes it more expensive for their drawing hands to continue and increases the chances that you'll play the pot heads up. i've noticed in some of your other threads that you seem to make a lot of weak preflop raise sizings i think this is an elementary weakness in your game that needs to be addressed

mottotom27 said:

i meant you should make your 3 bet sizing larger. your 3 bet was way too small it's more like a tournament 3 bet than a cash game one. you should typically 3 bet 3x the initial raiser at the very minimum, probably 3.5x here due to the limper being there as well and not having absolute position in the hand in the BB. this makes it more expensive for their drawing hands to continue and increases the chances that you'll play the pot heads up. i've noticed in some of your other threads that you seem to make a lot of weak preflop raise sizings i think this is an elementary weakness in your game that needs to be addressed

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This is not 2 or 5 NL. I gave that advice to those that are playing the lower limits to increase their winrate, and I took it from thebook of the biggest winner of all times at those limits.

But 25NL is a different animal. Different betsizes are exploitable if you are not against fish.

3-bet more. This hand isn't remotely really close. It's a snap call. I'd say if this is giving you difficulty, then you should probably get into some review groups and study hand ranges and equity.

Easy call. Also I size a little larger pre (to 11bbs)

So I called and of course I was beat.


Ordinarily I snap this one off without a 2nd thought but yeah this one did give me pause if for no other reason than villains stats. He had to have put me on a high pair based on the pre-flop action. The correct play is to shove and get called most of the time by an overpair, which is what he did. But I think I may be being a bit results oriented. My thought at the time was that any small pair would have folded to a 10x raise, not nearly getting the odds to set-mine(especially with a 17% vpip) .This looked to me like 88-QQ (AA or KK would have shoved pre-flop). I couldn't have been more surprised to see the quad three's.

Against a laggy maniac this is a fist pump call every time. As bad as his pre-flop play was he is still a tight player with very few bluffs in his range. In retrospect I don't think he's ever doing this with less than a set. I've played a few hundred more hands against him since this one went down and I've yet to see him donk off a stack.

There seems to be a consensus that I should have raised more preflop. This is something I will look into but for now I still think this is a mistake. The idea isn't to get everyone to correctly fold , it's to get them to incorrectly call. If somone want's to 10x hoping to spike a set I am more than happy to indulge them. Still, some good thoughts here and thank you all for your comments.

swingro said:

This is not 2 or 5 NL. I gave that advice to those that are playing the lower limits to increase their winrate, and I took it from thebook of the biggest winner of all times at those limits.

But 25NL is a different animal. Different betsizes are exploitable if you are not against fish.

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i didn't mean you haha i agree with your large betsizing for 2 and 5nl, i was meaning the OP since in some of his other threads he doesn't raise enough preflop with his premium hands.

$25 NLHE Full Ring: Calling off 100bb with Aces on low paired board

What's ur SN on carbon since I play 25NL often?

Ordinarily I snap this one off without a 2nd thought but yeah this one did give me pause if for no other reason than villains stats. He had to have put me on a high pair based on the pre-flop action. The correct play is to shove and get called most of the time by an overpair, which is what he did. But I think I may be being a bit results oriented. My thought at the time was that any small pair would have folded to a 10x raise, not nearly getting the odds to set-mine(especially with a 17% vpip) .This looked to me like 88-QQ (AA or KK would have shoved pre-flop). I couldn't have been more surprised to see the quad three's.

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you are being results oriented. far more often then not he'll have 99-QQ and be overvaluing his hand. it's actually unusual for a player to raise with such a strong hand as quads here, and i think it's a mistake he should have slowplayed to get more value from your bluffs and to allow you to catch up a bit with overcards like AK

Against a laggy maniac this is a fist pump call every time. As bad as his pre-flop play was he is still a tight player with very few bluffs in his range. In retrospect I don't think he's ever doing this with less than a set. I've played a few hundred more hands against him since this one went down and I've yet to see him donk off a stack.

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a set is too narrow a range to put someone on, even a very tight player. A hand like JJ would look pretty good to him on this board and he might want to raise to protect against overcards. he's far more likely to raise with a hand that warrants protection and just call with a monster.

There seems to be a consensus that I should have raised more preflop. This is something I will look into but for now I still think this is a mistake. The idea isn't to get everyone to correctly fold , it's to get them to incorrectly call. If somone want's to 10x hoping to spike a set I am more than happy to indulge them. Still, some good thoughts here and thank you all for your comments.

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i think you should trust the advice you are given. especially when more than one person are giving you it, including an experienced poker coach John A. i've read some of your other threads where again people offer advice on your preflop raise sizing leaks, but again you just ignore them. too often i see people make tiny 3 bets with monster hands because they want to "lure people in" and too often they get called and outdrawn and lose their stack. here it as actually correct for the SB to call with a pocket pair because he only has to call another 6bb giving him good implied odds to setmine.

Yeah this is an easy call, the fact he flops quads is irrelevant, it's a terribly bad play by him.

I would raise more pre flop around 12 bb atleast and the size of my flop bet would be less. The move by villain is super strong post flop and i would also hate calling off such a large bet but will make one nonetheless because he sure does have many over pairs in his range.