$25 NLHE Full Ring: But,But i have pocket AA "Golly gee beav"

ALL IN CLUBS

ALL IN CLUBS

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$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem (8 players)
SB: $14.01
BB: $25 VPIP 14% PFR 9% AGG 1.7 HANDS 338
UTG: $24.65
UTG+1: $30.02 (sitting out)
MP Hero: $40.53
MP+1: $26.29
CO: $15.81
BTN: $62.49 VPIP 42% PFR 18% AGG 2.3 HANDS 139

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP and dealt :ah4: :as4:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.85, MP+1 folds, CO calls $0.85, BTN calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($4.25) :9h4: :10s4: :6d4: (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $3.18, CO folds, BTN calls $3.18, SB folds, BB calls $3.18

Turn: ($13.79) :9h4: :10s4: :6d4: :5d4: (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9.19, BTN raises to $58.46 (All-in), BB calls $20.97 (All-in) Hero ugh wtf just happened ???? There is $71.26 avaible if we called of another $27.31 which is 2.6 to 1 odds ugh :eek: Are we happy now and calling or Is it Time to let the Rockets go ehh??? Also how should we have played this up to this point ??Should we have checked the turn for pot control?? Thanks
 
dwbrown7680

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ext results appended to pokerstove.txt

5,244,624 games 0.696 secs 7,535,379 games/sec

Board: 9h Ts 6d 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.857% 62.52% 00.34% 3278830 17783.50 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 22.621% 22.12% 00.50% 1160353 26054.00 { 88+, 87s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, 87o }
Hand 2: 14.522% 14.30% 00.22% 750078 11525.50 { random }

Giving the BB a tighter range based on his stats and the guy who appears to be a fish a random hand you can see this is pretty much a no brainer to get it in. Sorry if you lost but given the way it played out there are lots of FD's and draws still out there that you have beat equity wise.
 
ALL IN CLUBS

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Would you have bet the turn or keep pot small???
 
dwbrown7680

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I would have bet a little less on the flop, prolly 2.50-2.75. It looks like this is on Merge and you went with 3/4th's pot size bet. I'm also leading the turn but again probably for not as much, something like $6.50-$7.50 accomplishes the same thing but costs you less.

You'd be surprised at how much money you can save by not always betting 3/4th's, etc on each street. Most of the time less money accomplishes the same thing you're going for (unless you have the nuts or something obv) and adds up alot in the long run. I used to do the same thing til I got some NLHE coaching and he pointed out the same thing to me. I used to be real bad at betting far too much in 3b pots.
 
Nathan Williams

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I don't think I'd be barreling the turn here. The weak/tightish BB alone overcalling a big cbet 6 way is reason enough to think that something is up. As played the turn is just a snap fold.
 
dwbrown7680

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I don't think I'd be barreling the turn here. The weak/tightish BB alone overcalling a big cbet 6 way is reason enough to think that something is up. As played the turn is just a snap fold.

We already have over 1/3rd of our stack committed. I agree that I lean towards a fold given the shove and call but as shown above we have enough equity to warrant a call as long as we're not being results oriented.
 
acky100

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I feel like im happy to get it in vs aggressive looking fish, but thankfully we can already see that the tight BB has a set like 100% here, so him calling the all in makes me feel really happy about folding AA here.

As for barelling the turn im not sure either, I dont imagine this 14/9 to ever get out of line with us espeically when theres a fish in the pot. I'd probably check and see how regular reacts to the inevitable bet from the fish, if for some reason the regular folded i'd maybe be wanting to raise the turn.
 
Nathan Williams

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We already have over 1/3rd of our stack committed. I agree that I lean towards a fold given the shove and call but as shown above we have enough equity to warrant a call as long as we're not being results oriented.

The problem with this is that it has nothing to do with pot odds at this point when we are beat nearly 100% of the time. Your ranges are far too wide. BB for instance has a set here given his line and player type literally always.
 
acky100

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We already have over 1/3rd of our stack committed. I agree that I lean towards a fold given the shove and call but as shown above we have enough equity to warrant a call as long as we're not being results oriented.

I dont think we have enough equity here, erm i think you might be a bit off with the ranges in pokerstove. I really think the BB has a set here always, the 50/30 of course can have worse but i dont know how worse it gets, i dunno if he does this with stuff like QTo,JTo, usually these guys are raising these on the flop.
 
dwbrown7680

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Here are far tighter ranges for both players:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

553,770 games 0.078 secs 7,099,615 games/sec

Board: 9h Ts 6d 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.279% 52.66% 00.62% 291614 3428.50 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 25.375% 24.64% 00.74% 136441 4076.50 { 55+, AQs+, KQs, QJs, JTs }
Hand 2: 21.346% 21.23% 00.12% 117562 648.00 { JJ-22, J8s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-A8o, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o }


---

Why are we automatically throwing out the possibility of Ad10d, JdQd, etc from the tighter players range? Even with super tight ranges here it's not the worst thing in the world to call. I can definitely see a fold for sure, but we're not doing that bad either way, and we've already commited over a third of our stack.
 
dwbrown7680

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I really think the BB's range here is alot wider than people think even with his stats. Here in the BB with the number of callers behind him opens up lots of suited connectors or A10s, AJs, type hands that we're still doing fine against.
 
acky100

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I still think them ranges are a bit off mate. Seems like hand 2 has lots of total junk that he wouldnt be doing that with even considering he seems like a big fish.

I can never ever see this player type in hand 2 having JTs, with the amount of players in the pot pre i could actually maybe see him having the 1 combination of JQs that he might play this way. Other then that its just sets imo, nothing like AQs... EDIT: actually, a 14/9 will never get JQs in here on the turn with only 1 street to hit his draw i dont think, so yeah, i only think it's sets here 100%
 
dwbrown7680

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Ok I'm conceding to the fact we should be folding turn here. But with someone who appears to be solid after that many limpers wouldn't he 3 bet 9s or 10s? The only legit sets I can believe is 6s because he's not semi-floating that flop for 5s to hit on the turn. I realistically think the BB either has 66 or 78s here and the fish has something like Qd10d, QJs, QJo or 9,10 probably.

Either way the hero is behind and probably drawing dead but I think we're giving the BB a little too much credit here as well.
 
acky100

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I think BB 3betting 99,TT would be pretty bad. I agree bb never ever has 55 here though.
 
dwbrown7680

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Why would we not 3b 9s or 10s here for iso/to take it down? There's is about $4 in the pot we should be 3 betting to $6.50 or so. If we're in the BB with that hand and obv not knowing hero has AA it's bad/wrong to not 3b in that spot.

Lot of dead money that can get scooped up, if we get 4b we can easily fold and if we're just flatted we're in good shape alot of the time. 25nl has lots of bad players and not 3betting 9s/10s/Js, etc in the BB is costing us money in the long run.

Also back into the hand in question, why can't the BB have JJ in this spot?
 
acky100

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I just think 3betting hands like 99 in the blinds multiway, is going to get calls and us going to be OOP a lot either to 1 or 2 people. Overcards are going to ruin our lives when we c-bet and get floated as we're just gonna play face up. I think you can make plenty of money just flatting these medium pocket pairs. It may very well be +EV 3betting them i just think its better to flat.
 
Deco

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We defo should be betting the turn. Value towning the fish is of utmost importance and the BBs range is not that strong yet, QJ/AT/JJ can all show up, AT/QJ more than likely have to be suited although you never know people do loosen up when ending the action in a 6man pot preflop.

As for vs the shoves it's close but I call. Vs the Tag we are being laid amazing odds, JJ and ATs certainly don't outnumber 66/99/TT/78s/T9s but with our odds for the side pot we'd need to be best a very small amount of the time.
As for the fish, what would you do if he had shoved by himself? JJ/AT/KT/QT could all do this as they are scared of the drawy board, as could QJ/9dxd/tdxd/8dxd/7dxd/6dxd/KdQd etc

I would like to see BB 3bet% and sqeeuze stats. If they are high enough to suggest JJ gets 3bet here I fold.
 
dooydoo

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I think the nit has 87 or a set.

The bad players has 2pr+.

I dont like betting here but the problem is if you x the turn and they bet call and you have a bit a tough decision to make. If they bet and shove then you can snap fold.

As played i would fold and not worry about it.
 
WVHillbilly

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I'm betting the turn here 100% but I'm folding when the BB calls the BTNs shove.
 
B

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I want to give up after the flop honestly.

Turn bet is way too big, bet $5 or so to get value from worse hands and to make sure we don't feel pot committed when this happens. If BB nit wants to stack off on this board that crushes the BTN's range, good for him.
 
WVHillbilly

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I was thinking I'd bet smaller on the turn too but if the BTN keeps calling I think I want to get as much of his stack in as possible so I'm fine with the bigger turn bet solely because of his stack size.
 
dwbrown7680

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After looking over this a few times and trying diff variations in pokerstove I feel like BB's range is bigger than we think because of the fish with the big stack involved. Also, there is a very good chance we're ahead of BTN's range and calling the all in isnt' bad with the side pot at all.
 
bgomez89

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Folding turn and I'm thinking your range is too wide on stove. 55+? Why would btn shove 77-88, AQs here?
 
CheckraiseLife

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i'm a nit so for starter i'm folding that turn when two go all in...nah screw it hardly ever good I promise you, that board yuk!


and with two callers i think i check the turn i really dont like that 5 since buttons range owns you, nvm the guy calling behind
 
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