$25 NLHE Full Ring: ANOTHER AA Hand strange flop Shortstackers

ALL IN CLUBS

ALL IN CLUBS

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Total posts
1,423
Chips
0
$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem (9 players)
SB: $26.82
BB: $15.05
UTG: $6.28 ONLY 6 hands Shortstacker
UTG+1: $25.03
MP: $7.02 VPIP 45% PFR 14% AGG 1.8 HANDS 290
MP+1 Hero: $25
MP+2: $12.85
CO: $38.93
BTN: $69.80 VPIP 46% PFR 18% AGG 2.3 HANDS 28

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP+1 and dealt :as4: :ah4:
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 folds, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BTN calls $1.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.25, MP calls $1.25

Flop: ($6.35) :6d4: :jd4: :js4: (4 players)
UTG bets $4.78 (All-in), MP calls $4.78, Hero, so shortstacker shoves flop other shortstacker joins nows there $15.91 in the pot and one fullstack behind me left to act?? should we.

1.) Flat here and see what player behind me does?

2.) Bet 3/4 pot?

3.) just Fold we are prob beat.

4.) Or?
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
All in!

Nahh I mean fold lol.
 
M

megl

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Total posts
54
Chips
0
Why? What's your reasons for giving this advice?

A fold is probably no so bad, but a raise is quite OK also. This is why:
Given the preflop action, the range of all 3 opponents definitely contains quite a few jacks (with medium to low kickers probably), but also most pocket pairs that you beat, and suited conector type hands.
On the flop, the first acting player is not likely to hold the jack, when he shoves he is much more likely to hold a medium pocket pair (you see shortstackers shove PPs on a paired board a LOT at these stakes). He may even shove a flushdraw, as the pot and stack sizes gives him close to good odds on his FD should one player call, and very fine odds should two or more players call. Holding a jack in this spot many players would be more inclined to checkraise.
Same line of reasoning applies to the possible holdings of the next player to act, although his range is a bit skewed towards the jack. Still, a FD is likely to call due to the odds.
The player behind you has a broad range and given the action to him so far he is likely to fold anything but the very top of his range on this flop, so he should be easily pushed off the hand most of the time.

Let's say you put in a raise.
If the player behind you fights back, you know he has you beat and you can fold. But the vast majority of times his holding is too weak for a 4-way pot on this board and he will fold.
When he folds, you have 55-60% equity against the two villains, if their range is something like I described above, and you get better than 3:1 on your money.
Doing the EV calculation, it's comfortably +EV to raise instead of folding.
 
Last edited:
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
I fold because the 2nd shorty just called the initial shove, we still have a full stack behind us, and we do not hold the Ad.
 
M

megl

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Total posts
54
Chips
0
I fold because the 2nd shorty just called the initial shove
True. But given his stack size, it's as good as an all-in from him too. How do you interpret his call - does it somehow narrow his range, you think?
we still have a full stack behind us
Also true. But he has not acted on the flop yet so we have him on a very wide range, he will be unable to continue with like 90% of his range. Yes when he does we are crushed, but the other 90% of the time we can push him off and have nice equity vs the other 2 players.
and we do not hold the Ad.
Hmmm. Us holding the Ad would lower the possibility that they are on a FD, and block the nut FD and backdoors. Conversely, us NOT holding the Ad raises the possibility that they hold a FD and put their money in with it, which is +EV for us in this spot.

I like to try to consider all possible outcomes, rather than focusing on only the scary or happy ones.
 
Deco

Deco

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2009
Total posts
2,544
Chips
0
I call.

The second shorty is a huge fish. If the deep stack doesn't get involved we need to be ahead around 20% of the time. Bare in mind the pot is the same size as their stacks, they do not need a jack to get it in.

Really not happy about the situation but the pot is far too big for us to leave. If the deep stack raises I fold.
I hate raising. If the big stack has us beat it won't scare him off yet it will commit our stack.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top