$25 NLHE Full Ring: AK, TPTK

$25 NL HE Full Ring: AK, TPTK

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 20/11/1.8

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($27.50)
MP1 ($26.80)
MP2 ($8.10)
MP3 ($27.05)
CO ($12.25)
Button ($5)
SB ($5.10)
BB ($25)
Hero (UTG) ($24.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , A
Hero bets $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, 6 folds

Flop: ($2.35) K , J , 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, MP1 raises to $5.10, Hero folds

Total pot: $5.35 | Rake: $0.25

Not an overly aggressive player; what does the flop raise mean? He thinks I'm just c-betting?

It could mean a lot of things. He thinks your c-betting, but i wouldn't think he'd raise that much. He has K-J, J-J or 4-4 and feels if you have A-K, you'll pay him off. Or, he is an idiot and has K-7s and thinks your bluffing. Or he knows you are good enough to fold to a big re-raise (see poker tracker stats) and is playing on your tendencies.

How many hands have you played with this guy, any reads ? showdowns ?

Most people call with sets and I doubt this particular TAG opponent will try to scare you out if he had a set.

He probably had KJ or QT for an OESD. Or he simply read your bet as very weak and tried to bluff you out... 1.50 in 2.35 does not feel like you really like the flop.

I am not folding TPTK on dry flops like this one. Why did you decide to give up ?

Is your sample size of hands large enough to have an accurate read on his agression stats on the flop? How often is he raising?

Also, that is a pretty big raise do you have any reads on that?

I don't think he has KJ because calling an UTG raiser with KJ in FR is stupid.

AK UTG sucks :*(

TimmyOtool said:

AK UTG sucks :*(

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no it doesn..AK is great in any position

As to the OP..dont undermine the fact that he could have a set of 4's or even a set of J's....literally just happened to me on a cash table..i had AK...flop A 9 2...i bet he shoves i call...he shows a set of 9's..sick set up IMO lol

Pafkata said:

Most people call with sets and I doubt this particular TAG opponent will try to scare you out if he had a set.

He probably had KJ or QT for an OESD. Or he simply read your bet as very weak and tried to bluff you out... 1.50 in 2.35 does not feel like you really like the flop.

I am not folding TPTK on dry flops like this one. Why did you decide to give up ?

Click to expand...

Sorry; I didn't realize I left that fold in. Basically because 1) I have TPTK OOP and this pot has the potential to get bigger than I want, and 2) he's not overly aggressive postflop so there's a higher likelihood that this means a hand, and 3) he's IP so he gets to control pot size. I agree that this opponent is probably smart enough to flat sets here, or maybe minraise, which is why the size of his raise and the fact that he raised at all had me scratching my head.


I tend to overdo using exploitable bet sizing, not expecting anyone to pick up on it at 25nl, so the flop bet is undersized encouraging a paired Jack or middle pair to call, not expecting a decent sized raise.

I don't have a lot of hands on this opponent; this session is the first time I've run across him, though he was on at least two of my tables. Something like 80 hands or so.

urrgh not a nice position.
I call one off and fold to further action.

I see nothing with with folding outright as were either miles ahead or way behind and calling down several streets is doing nothing more than bluff catching.

I think your options here are to either fold, jam if he's cally, or raise with the intent of getting it in. I don't think any of the options is great, and if you feel your edge in the game in the long haul is pretty big, then screw it, fold and take the stack later. However, if you feel you're fairly evenly matched with the game, then maybe take this opportunity for a nice pickup. I really wouldn't hate any of the options, and I definitely would have folded, short of some reason not to, but sounds like you haven't seen one.

It was relatively early so I opted for the safer option given the situation and the reads to that point.

Later on at a different table we were in a similar situation, on a drier but two tone flop. I bet slightly larger and he minraised. Based on this hand, I flatted his raise with nothing and bet out half pot on the turn to see what he'd do. He instafolded, I made notes.

Sample size on him? The stat we check here is his raise cbet %. Generally anything over 15 is getting no respect from me, but even lower here and I still peel one and fold to further action just because I expect bad players in the micros to raise for info/protection with KQ a lot.

Not a FR player anymore but I still expect our hand to be good enough to peel. Then I expect most people shut down without a hand >AK on the turn, so we peel one and fold the turn.

I've seen a lot of players do this at 25NL with hands like KQ. Doesn't seem logical, but remember, this is still the micro's.

TimmyOtool said:

AK UTG sucks :*(

Click to expand...

AK UTG is great. U raise 3/3.5xBB and hope u get called by cards like AQ/KQ/KJ/AJ which u dominate. And when u hit ur A or K there likely to pay u off.

Depends on ur read with this guy if he 3bets alot. Is this how he plays his set? Doubts a TAG would reraise a set if he puts u on AK. He could just be reraising with KQ/KT/QT and and wants to know where he stands.

I'd call and if the Turn is a brick i'd check raise him.

ChuckTs said:

Sample size on him? The stat we check here is his raise cbet %. Generally anything over 15 is getting no respect from me, but even lower here and I still peel one and fold to further action just because I expect bad players in the micros to raise for info/protection with KQ a lot.

Not a FR player anymore but I still expect our hand to be good enough to peel. Then I expect most people shut down without a hand >AK on the turn, so we peel one and fold the turn.

Click to expand...

Curious what would you do if you had KQ in this position? Well I dont think you would call MP PF but say you were button PF and you see this 65% CBet. Flat call? I dont see a problem with raising. Maybe Im a bad player

Check call.

Is this an option. To me, this is a better flop on an aggressive villian IP. If they bet flop after you check, call and see what the turn brings.

If they are not that aggro, but know to c-bet, then check-raises the flop (but this is scary growing the pot OOP). This is only if you know your player and if you know how they would play a set. Since you don't, I think c/c (check-call....is this the correct shorthand?) the flop and see the turn is a good idea.

BLieve said:

Curious what would you do if you had KQ in this position? Well I dont think you would call MP PF but say you were button PF and you see this 65% CBet. Flat call? I dont see a problem with raising. Maybe Im a bad player

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Your default play should be to flat a flop like this if you're in this position with KQ (which I wouldn't be; I'd have folded pf given the conditions). By raising you usually fold out all the hands worse than KQ, and isolate all the better ones. Search 'wa/wb' in the forums, you'll find some enlightening threads.

There are of course times to raise top pair with KQ - if you expect your opponent to be loose and bad, and therefore never fold something like KT, or even A9, then of course raise for value. I would need a special read for that though.

honestly i wouldnt be suprised to see hands like AA, KK or AK here, especially playing behind a raise in ep.there seems to be allot of micro players slow playing big pp preflop. just another idea i really think folding was your best option there. Why would he 3-bet the c-bet by so much ?

Sorry; haven't been tracking this thread.

He's on two of my tables but hasn't shown himself to be overly aggressive. He has position on me on both of my tables, but the total hands is something like 80 hands so very little post-flop info. I'm still not sure what he has here, but if he's ahead or drawing he has position so I don't know that I want to call. If he has air it becomes a bit of a game of chicken and I don't have much post-flop info to go on. Unless I want to use this hand to start to gather that info on him I still think I fold the flop here, wait for another opportunity.

I hate these kind of bets and against this player mm Hg i dunno i think i would push but honestly wouldn't be surprised if he has 10 2 here. I think calling to see what he does is beat, if its a non flush card and he inst ships i would snap call, if he bets like 11,12 i think its a fold cause hes cot something and wants your monies!
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Where do you find the vpip/pfr/af?

Anyway, I agree with this:

Most people call with sets and I doubt this particular TAG opponent will try to scare you out if he had a set.

He probably had KJ or QT for an OESD. Or he simply read your bet as very weak and tried to bluff you out... 1.50 in 2.35 does not feel like you really like the flop.

I am not folding TPTK on dry flops like this one. Why did you decide to give up ?

Click to expand...

TPTK is not a huge hand, an the pot looks to get huge if villain is serious, so a fold is not wrong. Sounds like you felt unsure and smelled a rat here, and wanted more reading on the guy, so the fold is OK; its not an instacall thats for sure...

ChuckTs said:

Your default play should be to flat a flop like this if you're in this position with KQ (which I wouldn't be; I'd have folded pf given the conditions). By raising you usually fold out all the hands worse than KQ, and isolate all the better ones. Search 'wa/wb' in the forums, you'll find some enlightening threads.

There are of course times to raise top pair with KQ - if you expect your opponent to be loose and bad, and therefore never fold something like KT, or even A9, then of course raise for value. I would need a special read for that though.

Click to expand...

I see I see yes the WAWB thread has helped me significantly the past few months and Im assuming you would have folded PF because hero raised UTG vs raising at the CO (if you were button that is).

This might be worth another thread itself but I will pose the question here. Do you guys call on the button with KQs AJs against say a 15/10 who raised from MP?