$25 NLHE Full Ring: 78suited pos on Fish with Almost the nutzz

ALL IN CLUBS

ALL IN CLUBS

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$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem (8 players)
SB: $12.83
BB: $73.38
UTG: $17.01 (sitting out)
UTG+1: $41.81
MP: $16.90
MP+1: $26.95 VPIP 41% PFR 18% HANS 776
CO Hero: $25.85
BTN: $25

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO and dealt :8d4: :7d4:
2 folds, MP+1 raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, BB folds

Flop: ($1.85) :6d4: :5d4: :kh4: (3 players)
MP+1 bets $1, , Hero? Should we be Flatting fish here or just Raise to pot on flop???
 
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PotluckXXI

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Hmm been reading about floating lately, so you call and want him to check the turn right? You have 15 outs three 9's, three 4's, seven diamonds, and two stone cold nuts which is approximately 60% so the question is will you get paid off if one of your outs hits. If yes then float doesn't seem too bad, if no then get it in here, correct? He's got you covered so should you shove all-in?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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No we don't just shove over his flop cbet. We make it about $4. Also this is not the spot to float because as you correctly pointed out our equity edge here is huge and lots of turns will reduce it. My plan would be to get it in on the flop if he wants. If he calls the flop raise and checks the turn I bet again. If he calls the flop and leads the turn I shove over. I do this on any and all turn cards.
 
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PotluckXXI

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what if he re-raises? at this point I would expect either a shove (maybe $5 or more on top of your raise) or fold from him.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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After his flop bet he's still got ~$24 in his stack Not sure where you're getting your $5 more figure?
 
gwaewar

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Id just flat; I think if we raise, we will get reraised since villain is oop. And villain is probs giving up on the turn anyway.
 
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Sori

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say he shoves over our raise, do we go all-in since he has us covered?


What if the guy isn't so loose, how to we change our approach?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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say he shoves over our raise, do we go all-in since he has us covered?


What if the guy isn't so loose, how to we change our approach?
Yes. We're very willing to get all-in on this flop.

Actually I'd like the preflop call better if he was tighter. When we play a speculative hands we need to get paid big when we hit. Strong ranges are going to be more likely to pay us off than wide ones. So unless this fish just spew postflop (like he's willing to stack TT here) calling preflop was probably a mistake.
 
gwaewar

gwaewar

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Why are you trying to get it all in here? I still think its a thin edge against pps, AKo, AKs.
 
acky100

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We get it in on the flop because theres not one hand that has more equity than ours by showdown. We have 15 outs that say we will win this 60% of the time even against a set of kings on the flop that's why.

edit: maybe something like Kx diamonds has more equity but seriously the amount of time he has 2 flush cards is very low considering we have 2 of them.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Why are you trying to get it all in here? I still think its a thin edge against pps, AKo, AKs.
You do realize that against the tightest range of AA/KK/AK we're a favorite right?
 
gwaewar

gwaewar

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Flat and depolarize range. Even if we are ahead here, I'd rather flat and get great implied odds if we hit a straight but not a flush. I'm not stacking off here, sorry.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Don't be sorry. You'll figure it out someday.
 
gwaewar

gwaewar

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If you can't see merit in flatting, then lol.
 
bgomez89

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Flat and depolarize range. Even if we are ahead here, I'd rather flat and get great implied odds if we hit a straight but not a flush. I'm not stacking off here, sorry.

Lol.

We're a favorite against his range, it's GOOD to get it all in on the flop.

We raise here to get hands that are beating us to fold and also to get the money in on the flop in case a good card for us is a scare card for him.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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I think I'd fold pre too btw
 
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baudib1

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We're happy to get it in here, prefer to get it in on the flop, even if he never folds.

As far as pre I think folding is ok but probably wouldn't fold unless the people behind were really squeezy. If the whole table wants to jump in after us that's ok, too. Probably always call on the BTN against this guy raising from MP or CO.

I'd rather play against a wide range with this hand than a tight range because this hand isn't about flopping a straight and getting all the money in, the value comes from flopping pretty good equity to float on a ton of boards and every once in a while flopping the essential nizzles like here and using our equity to put pressure on weak ranges.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Pre is disgusting imo. Would prefer to do it with a high-card hand because most of the time we're going to hit bad middle pair or bottom pair, OESD kind of hands which can't face a lot of aggression. Atleast with KJo we can flop a decent top pair a good % of the time and get to showdown.
 
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