$25 NLHE 6-max: Zone: Villain Full House over My Rivered Flush... Bad Beat or Bad Play?

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sportsguy16

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$25 NLHE 6-max: Zone: Villain Full House over My Rivered Flush... Bad Beat or Bad Play?

Effective Stacks: $12
BB (HERO): KdTc

UTG: AsJh

Pre - Flop

UTG raises to $0.75

SB calls

BB(Hero) calls $0.50

Flop - Pot $1.90

9cJcJs

SB checks

BB (hero) bets $1

UTG calls

SB calls

Turn - Pot $4.90

9cJcJsAc

SB checks

BB (hero) bets $0.25

UTG calls

SB calls

River - Pot $5.65

9cJcJsAcQc

SB checks

BB (hero) bets $5.00

UTG re-raises to $10.00

SB folds

BB (hero) calls $5.00 all - in

UTG shows AsJh for a full house

BB(hero) shows KdTc for a flush

Bad Beat or Bad Play?

The sizing on the turn is deliberate, sized as such to get some low percentage draws out and allow me to have an option to call if check-raised. Also, the sizing was chosen to make it look like I was trying to induce a check-raise, therefore folding out some better hands.

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!
 
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RakeMyLife

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Sorry, very bad play.

Preflop: Fine to defend there but you should assume you need a lot of help on the flop. K10 dominated by a lot of starting hands.

Flop: This is a bad spot to donk bet. You have a gutshot and backdoor flush draw but this board is likely to hit somebody, and even if you hit the straight, QJ is very much in villains’ range.

Turn: Since you’ve picked up more outs, I can understand somewhat keeping up the aggression but your bet sizing is way off, as you are not going to get any low percentage draws out, you learn little to nothing about villains’ range, and might be trapping yourself in the process (as happened). Also, check-call is a cheaper way to see the river usually even though it gives away your hand strength.

River: Yes, you have nut flush but that isn’t very good on a board like that. Do you think QJ and AJ are reasonable hands for villains to play?? 99? They certainly are, so you’ve now overvalued your hand and bloated the pot.
 
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gustav197poker

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This hand should be folded in preflop, since sb calls a probably adjusted PFR of utg. So you should not expose your stack, in a range of wide structure, which has a low defense and attack capacity. Think that T protects you about 60% of the time and you are exposing yourself 40% of the time, to a negative impact on your king. That is, you are almost accepting a 50/50 situation against 2 villains, who probably have interesting ranks in preflop and also more likely to achieve a sufficient spr, to play their ranks thoroughly, in the post-flop development.
I honestly see no reason to anticipate a bet on the flop. You have backdoor flush + gutshot. But you have the second flush scale and maybe outs reductions (villains probably have combinations in their ranges, which negatively impact your implicit odds of improvement, for example: A-Q; etc.).
I think the same about the turn. What hands can pay you a turn bet, after a 50% bet advance of the pot and all the action of a passive borderline proceeding, in a 3-way pot?
I do not think that betting on the turn is a good option, because you have 2 ranks v that can put too much pressure on this place.
The bet size you chose on the turn, is quite disproportionate down, and does not achieve any positive effect on the sequence of this hand. With that size you are inducing the villains to make simple calls, which could become aggressive lines. For which, you don't want to get to the river with very large boats and failed draws.
A cooler situation occurs on the river, but the texture of the board and the decisions you made during the entire sequence (from preflop) could avoid this end of negative variance. Or at least significantly reduce the probability of its occurrence.
Greetings.
 
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fundiver199

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Thanks for sharing this hand. There is quite a bit to talk about, so let us take it street for street

Preflop
As others have already suggested, this hand should just be folded. Playing bad offsuit broadways to much is a pretty big leak in a lot of peoples games. If it folds around to you in late position, sure try to steal the blinds. If you face a steal from late position and get a good price, sure defend. But an UTG open range is simply to strong to get involved with KTo.

The issue is domination. Flop comes KXX, he has AA, AK, KQ or KJ, but he never has K9, K8 or K7. Flop comes TXX, he has AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AT, but he never has QT or JT. The fact, that SB called, makes it even worse, unless SB is a fish. Preflop is very important, because while preflop mistakes are in themselfes small, they tend to create a snowball effect. It begin as a small innocent snowball at the top of the hill, but at the bottom of the hill (the river), it has become a huge ugly pile of snow. This is basically the story of this hand.

Flop
You flopped a gutshot on a paired board, so kind of a bad draw. The first thing to notice here is, that your hand is not good enough to check-call, so if you are going to continue, it has to be with aggression, which can either mean leading (donk betting) or check-raising. Leading is unconventional, and a lot of people have knee-jerk reactions against it, but I actually dont think, it was a terrible choise here.

You are probably slightly more likely to have a J than the other two guys, and leading puts UTG in a difficult spot, because he has SB to act after him. So its quite possible, you can get UTG off a hand like AK or AQ, which would be a great result. Checking on the ofter hand keep more options open including to simply check-fold, if to heavy action develop behind you. So I dont mind either option here.

Turn
When you pick up equity, you should usually continue to barrel on the turn, and in this case you picked up a flush draw. It can also be said, that Ac was a good scare card to continue bluffing. However its not great, that they both called you on the flop, and its also not unlikely, that one of them actually connected with that card. If they have a flush now, you could be drawing dead, and even if they hit top pair, they are probably not going to fold it for one bet.

So I think, its probably pretty close between betting and checking again. However if you are going to bet, you need to use a size, which tell them, that you mean business. Something like 50-70% pot. They are not folding anything, when you give them 20:1, so this betsize is really something, you need to rethink. Its literally does nothing other than to dump 25c into the pot in a situation, where you are almost certainly behind to at least one of them if not both of them.

River
Now you made a flush, and you are likely to have the best hand, but I actually dont think, there is a lot of value to be had here. This is the point in the hand, where you really need to consider, what they have, and what you are trying to get called by. Or if it might even be better to check to induce bluffs. Ideally you would want them to have a worse flush or maybe a straight, but unfortunately that is very unlikely.

If they are good players, they are not playing KT, just as you should not have played it either. And they also dont play hands like A8 or 98 offsuit, which could have made an 8 high flush. They probably dont have trips either, because then you would have heard about it on the flop or turn. So if you lead out, you are trying to get called mostly by AX, which mean, you need to make it cheap. Instead you potted it, and that is almost turning your hand into a value bluff. Your hand will often be best, but when you make such a large bet, you will only get action, when you are beat.
 
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sportsguy16

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thanks for all the help guys!
 
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Sidetracked

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Very bad play on every street. Fold that hand to an UTG open. Realise that on a paired flop you can easily be drawing dead already etc etc etc
 
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