$25 NLHE 6-max: What to do here pre-flop?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($12.73)
SB ($35.85)
BB ($26.24)
UTG ($13.65)
Hero (MP) ($42.48)
CO ($25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J , J
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, Button calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $3.25, Hero?



Thoughts on how to proceed here pre-flop?

Button is a 60/20 limper, very passive, liklihood here is that he will just fold pre-flop.

BB is a total unknown, only have like 20 hands on him, running at 10/10 so all i know is that he is likely tighter than average.

My image, I probably seem really loose to the BB, i've been opening a lot of pots since he came to the table, and only shown down decent holdings. This would have been the 3rd hand i've raised in a row though.

So thoughts on how to proceed pre?

I'd just fold but keep an eye out to see if he likes to squeeze when the drooler limps along

people fold JJ to 3bets @ 6max?


thank god i don't play 6max!

I also fold 99 and TT but you can ask me about that later

Raise to $5.75

He would need to be 3betting something like %6 or wider to make shoving/4bet-stacking profitable. If you think your average 25nl full-stacked unknown is capable of that, then stack it. Otherwise I fold.

Given the dead money and our image I'm fine with getting it in.

Given our image, I'm 50/50 shoving or folding in this spot. I'm not sure that either option is necessarily better or worse against a virtual (though seemingly somewhat competent) unknown, so it would come down to what type of table dynamics I want to promote for the rest of the session, and how I plan to exploit my image.

mrmonkey said:

Given our image, I'm 50/50 shoving or folding in this spot. I'm not sure that either option is necessarily better or worse against a virtual (though seemingly somewhat competent) unknown, so it would come down to what type of table dynamics I want to promote for the rest of the session, and how I plan to exploit my image.

Click to expand...

Session was about to end, was only a very short one. and is image even important in these low stakes games? it's hard to know whos good or not, even some of the "better" players probably are not that good.

ChuckTs said:

He would need to be 3betting something like %6 or wider to make shoving/4bet-stacking profitable. If you think your average 25nl full-stacked unknown is capable of that, then stack it. Otherwise I fold.

Given the dead money and our image I'm fine with getting it in.

Click to expand...

Yeah the dead money was tempting, but i think i already mentioned that i suspected him to be tighter than the average player. Probably should have mentioned but this guy hadn't really even raised from late position at all since he joined the table, i think most semi-competant regs would be raising pretty early on.

So with him being tighter, this pushes it to a reluctant fold?

baudib1 said:

Raise to $5.75

Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? We're making the small 4bet and folding to a shove? It's probably a simple situation, but im a bit stupid when it comes to cash games, damn tournaments!

I mean if you really think he's well under %6 3bet, then yeah I agree with a fold. Otherwise, I don't think 20 hands is really enough to make any positional assumptions or narrow his 3bet range that much. I just see too many spazzy 3bets with random hands that either can't fold (usually underpairs as most don't stack worse than AQ pf), or do fold and leave all that dead money out there for us when we take it down.

Basically I can't fold QQ to a squeeze 100bbs deep, with the basic read that villain is 'tight' after 20 hands.

WiZZiM said:

Session was about to end, was only a very short one. and is image even important in these low stakes games? it's hard to know whos good or not, even some of the "better" players probably are not that good.

Click to expand...

I think 25nl is sort of the cutoff when image starts to play a bigger role. I go into 10nl or less vs. an unknown with the assumption that they are probably operating on only the first level of thought. At 25nl, I tend to treat unknowns as operating on the second level of thought: 25nl unknowns are probably starting to think about "what does my opponent have?".

This was my experience for the micros at Full Tilt before the closure, though I don't have a ton of experience in 50nl or on other sites to compare it with.

However, I think that image is always somewhat important, even at 2nl. I mean, even total fish notice when someone is raising preflop 3-4 times in a row and will make a mental note that this guy is aggressive.

mrmonkey said:

I think 25nl is sort of the cutoff when image starts to play a bigger role. I go into 10nl or less vs. an unknown with the assumption that they are probably operating on only the first level of thought. At 25nl, I tend to treat unknowns as operating on the second level of thought: 25nl unknowns are probably starting to think about "what does my opponent have?".

This was my experience for the micros at Full Tilt before the closure, though I don't have a ton of experience in 50nl or on other sites to compare it with.

However, I think that image is always somewhat important, even at 2nl. I mean, even total fish notice when someone is raising preflop 3-4 times in a row and will make a mental note that this guy is aggressive.

Click to expand...

Yeah true, it's just hard sometimes on whether or not to act on your assumptions about players. Since 25nl is the "cutoff" it's probably goign to be pretty hard to work out which player is thinking what without any sort of sample on them. So perhaps i'll just give the average player a little more credit at this level until proven otherwise. thanks.

ChuckTs said:

I mean if you really think he's well under %6 3bet, then yeah I agree with a fold. Otherwise, I don't think 20 hands is really enough to make any positional assumptions or narrow his 3bet range that much. I just see too many spazzy 3bets with random hands that either can't fold (usually underpairs as most don't stack worse than AQ pf), or do fold and leave all that dead money out there for us when we take it down.

Basically I can't fold QQ to a squeeze 100bbs deep, with the basic read that villain is 'tight' after 20 hands.

Click to expand...

Yeah i mean queens i wouldn't even be posting. Jacks isn't too much differant, but i really think it's probably the borderline hand, kind of depends which side of the border it is.

In general, when i think something is kinda close in game, i usually go for the most aggressive option i have. Is this a decent way of thinking about these close spots?

Yep

brainfart re: QQ by me there, ignore that last part.

Regarding the aggression thing, I mean it's fine in relation to passivity, but obv if something is questionable as to whether or not it's profitable then folding is usually best when relying on wide ranges since people tend not to go nuts at micros (at least with regards to being aggressive themselves).