$25 NLHE 6-max: $ : Two questionable spots in big 3 way pot with KK

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c0rnBr34d

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I made two questionable plays this hand and I think they ended up working out for the better this particular time but I don't want to be results oriented. Thoughts on every street appreciated.

PokerStars - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 153.7 BB
Hero (CO): 169.7 BB
BTN: 119.3 BB VP 51 PR 2 3B 2 Hands: 108
SB: 89.03 BB
BB: 67.9 BB VP 42 PR 5 3B 0 Hands: 19
UTG: 39.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J T Q
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks
This is the first spot. I was playing 8 tables and I felt like this flop definitely hits calling ranges hard. I also thought since I have the Kd and I don't mind the Ace peeling off, the only turn card I dont really want to see is the K and I block the K so it seemed like a good spot to check back or even check raise since we have all the AK and all the sets should have 3 bet. We are probably mathematically ahead of two pair here. I also had one of those gut feelings that I should check. Obviously betting for value is standard and I bet here 90% of the time but I decided to check this one. Terrible or ok?
Turn: (9.5 BB, 3 players) K
BB bets 9.03 BB, Hero calls 9.03 BB, BTN calls 9.03 BB
Such a gross turn. I didn't list this as a spot but I thought implied odds on his remaining stack were good enough if the board paired or we chop if the Ace falls. Still haven't done the EV calc but I probably should. Assuming he has an Ace we have 10 outs to scoop for stacks and 1 or 2 more outs to chop.
River: (36.6 BB, 3 players) K
BB bets 55.87 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 55.87 BB, BTN calls 55.87 BB
Bingo! Was that my gut seeing the future? This was the second spot. I literally tanked here. The overbet jam is so strong and BB is already all in. I felt like raising is just too strong and will force BTN to fold his Ax. I tanked a bit longer and decided to flat to hope BTN can find at least a call or maybe a spaz raise with Ax or missed diamonds or something. If BBs bet was smaller or he had money left behind I would raise 100% but this felt like such a no win spot to raise. I want to raise but I don't feel like anything can call given the action up to this point. Should we raise anyway or just try to get the 56 BB by flatting?
BB shows 4 A (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 15%, Flop 4%, Turn 37%)
Hero shows K K (Four of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 73%, Flop 92%, Turn 25%)
BTN mucks A 3 (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 13%, Flop 4%, Turn 37%)
Hero wins 197.53 BB
Rake paid 6.67 BB

So in this case if I c-bet 1/2 pot or more I think I lose one or both Vs and take down a nice pot but I save myself from having to call a pot sized bet in a sandwich drawing to a boat. Is that a fair trade off?
 
greatgame230

greatgame230

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Hi, in the pre-flop I would have raised a bit bigger x3.5 or x4 but of course a raise x3 is the standard, in the flop I would have made a bet but I understand perfectly your reasoning and it seems to me that it is correct, on the turn it was difficult to call here but as you say you have 10 outs so I totally agree on the call, where I do not agree is on the river call the BTN must have a reason to call in the pre-flop, flop and turn if he was waiting for a diamond he would have folded the BB bet anyway I think that is the only way that the BTN would have folded that hand I would have raised the BB bet I think that in that point it was very likely that the BTN would call my raise too, this is the way I would have played that hand does not mean that it is the best way just as I would have played
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard open.

Flop
I dont think, checking is terrible in any way. As you say, you have all the draws covered, and by checking you allow BTN to take a stab with whatever. Betting would also be fine. Both plays work, so nothing wrong with mixing it up. It makes you more difficult to play against, which is kind of important, if your opponents are able to think about anything other than their own cards.

Turn
Standard call. Folding would be to tight, and raising an overplay.

River
You are only playing against BTN now, and he is already facing an overbet. So I think, its fine to just call. If he has a full house, he might raise it himself, and if he has a straight, he should probably fold it rather than overcall on this kind of texture, where a full house is extremely likely. So you just calling might have been exactly, what induced him to make a pretty big mistake. Of course if he is totally dumb, then just move all in.
 
Aballinamion

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Line: checking flop oop 3-handed

I made two questionable plays this hand and I think they ended up working out for the better this particular time but I don't want to be results oriented. Thoughts on every street appreciated.

PokerStars - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 153.7 BB
Hero (CO): 169.7 BB
BTN: 119.3 BB VP 51 PR 2 3B 2 Hands: 108
SB: 89.03 BB
BB: 67.9 BB VP 42 PR 5 3B 0 Hands: 19
UTG: 39.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 3 players) J T Q
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks
This is the first spot. I was playing 8 tables and I felt like this flop definitely hits calling ranges hard. I also thought since I have the Kd and I don't mind the Ace peeling off, the only turn card I dont really want to see is the K and I block the K so it seemed like a good spot to check back or even check raise since we have all the AK and all the sets should have 3 bet. We are probably mathematically ahead of two pair here. I also had one of those gut feelings that I should check. Obviously betting for value is standard and I bet here 90% of the time but I decided to check this one. Terrible or ok?
Turn: (9.5 BB, 3 players) K
BB bets 9.03 BB, Hero calls 9.03 BB, BTN calls 9.03 BB
Such a gross turn. I didn't list this as a spot but I thought implied odds on his remaining stack were good enough if the board paired or we chop if the Ace falls. Still haven't done the EV calc but I probably should. Assuming he has an Ace we have 10 outs to scoop for stacks and 1 or 2 more outs to chop.
River: (36.6 BB, 3 players) K
BB bets 55.87 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 55.87 BB, BTN calls 55.87 BB
Bingo! Was that my gut seeing the future? This was the second spot. I literally tanked here. The overbet jam is so strong and BB is already all in. I felt like raising is just too strong and will force BTN to fold his Ax. I tanked a bit longer and decided to flat to hope BTN can find at least a call or maybe a spaz raise with Ax or missed diamonds or something. If BBs bet was smaller or he had money left behind I would raise 100% but this felt like such a no win spot to raise. I want to raise but I don't feel like anything can call given the action up to this point. Should we raise anyway or just try to get the 56 BB by flatting?
BB shows 4 A (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 15%, Flop 4%, Turn 37%)
Hero shows K K (Four of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 73%, Flop 92%, Turn 25%)
BTN mucks A 3 (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 13%, Flop 4%, Turn 37%)
Hero wins 197.53 BB
Rake paid 6.67 BB

So in this case if I c-bet 1/2 pot or more I think I lose one or both Vs and take down a nice pot but I save myself from having to call a pot sized bet in a sandwich drawing to a boat. Is that a fair trade off?

Hello there Cornbread, thank you for posting.

the postflop

The Flop

First of all: when we do open from the CO we do not have all the AK on our range, we have some AK on our range, but we also have 22, 33, A9, A8, you name it.
I believe this is a spot where we are betting 100% of times, no matter what the hell they called with, and if they raise, we call.
Letting this situation pass will become more hard to extract value from most of BTN's and BB's calling/continuation ranges.
Since you are not a noob anymore, I will spare you of too much technical details.
What is obvious here is that is going to be much more hard to extract value when it completes another diamond OTT, and when it completes a 9x, Ax or Kx, so given that there are two players yet to speak and they can call you here with a bunch of Tx, Jx, Qx, flush draws, straight draws, I would c-bet Flop OOP for value and protection.

The Turn

Is not a good card for our range, because now it completes a straight, opens another flush draw of hearts and we didn't c-bet flop, so we have no idea anymore of what's going on.
Although we do complete Top Set, in this situation it is meaningless, since now we are only get calls/raises from hands that are dominating our range or simply very good draws with a lot of potential for rivers. We have no option here than calling, it sucks but we cannot raise here, considering this is a single raised pot and we are almost always using a dynamic range from the CO.

The River

I would fold here, don't know what do to. :rolleyes: Lol, just kidding :D, but you gotta think how are you going to play all the 99% scenarios where you will not hit your Quads. Good luck!
Before asking if you should be raising Quads OTR, ask yourself which part of your range is really raising this specific river for Value and for bluff, because for value it is very easy to picture, but for bluff we don't see many bluffs raising here.
Particularly, I am not a great fan of raising spots where I usually have no bluffs.
If you didn't improve to a Quads, I guess you should be sad calling here, of course, only with Top Set, no full-houses either.

Regards;


Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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