$25 NLHE 6-max: Trips on riv facing bet.

forsakenone

forsakenone

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Villain has 27 hands, plays 46/12/1

Simple question, how do you guys play this hand? Usually I would go for bet bet bet here but I have been having a little tough time past 2 weeks at the tables and I am worried I am playing a little too passive.

What's your take on this hand.

888 Poker - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $30.00
SB: $17.51 (VPIP: 43.75, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: $34.82 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.81, 3Bet Preflop: 5.17, Hands: 144)
UTG: $73.57 (VPIP: 48.39, PFR: 12.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
CO: $30.72 (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has A:club: 4:club:

fold, CO calls $0.30, Hero raises to $1.01, fold, fold, CO calls $0.71

Flop: ($2.47, 2 players) 5:club: T:club: 4:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets $1.80, CO calls $1.80

Turn: ($6.07, 2 players) J:heart:
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.07, 2 players) 4:diamond:
CO bets $3.03, Hero calls.
 
J

js520

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I noticed u raise pretty small when there is a limper. I usually make it 1.35 there (pot), but I'd make it 1.20 at the very least. Is there a particular reason u only raise to 1.01?
I'd probably play flop and turn the same but i'm definitely raising the river, he's a fish he'll call with loads of worse hands.
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

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Pre-flop I would just flat call, you aren't dominating very many aces and can be easily dominated and while you may have the best hand it will be hard to play post-flop.

My line Vs Fish here:
Bet flop.
Check Turn.
Definitely raise BIG on the river, massive value lost here. Can't be scared of a full house when you have this hand.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Definitely bet/bet/bet. Maybe go just over half pot on the turn to give yourself decent odds and give him good odds if he is drawing to a flush. Allows you to check back river a good percentage of the time when you miss as well.

Don't mind the isolation preflop. You have position and although you will be dominated sometimes you will still get plenty of value. If it was an A4o if might be different, but with a suited ace and position you have a lot more playability postflop.

As played, you have to raise the river for value, he can be bet/calling a lot worse.
 
forsakenone

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My though was to raise, but then I started to wonder, what if he shoves? do I fold and hate myself for rasing here?
 
forsakenone

forsakenone

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I noticed u raise pretty small when there is a limper. I usually make it 1.35 there (pot), but I'd make it 1.20 at the very least. Is there a particular reason u only raise to 1.01?
I'd probably play flop and turn the same but i'm definitely raising the river, he's a fish he'll call with loads of worse hands.

I raised to this amount because I believe it is enough to isolate the fish so I can get HU with him in position.

But I also sometimes do this with stronger hands, when I am looking to be 3 bet so I can 4 bet for value, but this case was because I wanted to isolate.
 
Yoshimiii

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If he shoves then you're probably beat but if he had A/4 here he would lose just the same amount (I would think). Losing to full houses is more than compensated here by getting called from worse I think.
 
hackmeplz

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If you bet flop you really should be betting turn here. As played when he sizes river that way you're like never beat just raise. If he does 3b I guess you can fold but you're like never getting 3b when he bets river that size in the first place.
 
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js520

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If you bet flop you really should be betting turn here. As played when he sizes river that way you're like never beat just raise. If he does 3b I guess you can fold but you're like never getting 3b when he bets river that size in the first place.

Hackmeplz please could you explain why if you bet the flop you should be betting the turn aswell, cheers
 
Yoshimiii

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Hackmeplz please could you explain why if you bet the flop you should be betting the turn aswell, cheers

Obviously I can't speak for him but I think he means turning his hand into a bluff, when the Jack comes it's a pretty scary card for villain, however I don't agree, as the villain is likely a fish he will also call turn with most pairs.
 
forsakenone

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Seems like everyone tends to believe he might have a set, that is exactly what I thought he might have along with top pair T, and I was afraid that if I
bet turn I might get raised and I would have to fold such a sweet hand or call without great odds, so I decided to take a free card.
 
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ScottishMatt

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You should bet the turn because:

1. Better hands can fold
2. Worse hands can call
3. Most of the worse hands that are calling are flush draws so when you hit, they also hit. Betting the turn ensures a larger pot and you stack him 100% when he has a flush. You also make more money out of him when the flush doesn't come because you have more showdown value than most flush draws.
 
WVHillbilly

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I definitely think you should be betting all 3 streets here and I'd raise the river.
 
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RoTs

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Pre flop raise a bit more, I may play the turn the same a lot of hands they are not folding to a bet. River is definitely a raise what are we afraid of? 55 is the only hand I see villain limping calling pre flop unless they like 104s or J4s, villians PFR is 12 which makes me believe they would have raised 1010 and JJ pre.
 
hackmeplz

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Obviously I can't speak for him but I think he means turning his hand into a bluff, when the Jack comes it's a pretty scary card for villain, however I don't agree, as the villain is likely a fish he will also call turn with most pairs.

Yeah pretty much this but not even just a pure bluff. Even fish fold weak pairs here sometimes and he's certainly going to call some worse hands as well with draws (hearts, clubs, and a shitton of straight draws).
 
Yoshimiii

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If you bet the turn however he can raise you and it's probably gonna be a min-raise like most fish do, forcing you to call, whereas a check pot controls it with a mediocre hand and allows you to keep your equity in case your hand is no good (and it's probably not) and you hit you're flush or trips.
 
acky100

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Think you got scared somewhere in this hand.

bet flop, i hate checking turn here, bet $4.50, you pick up fold equity, build a bigger pot when you hit, have a pair of fours... then we can just bet/fold river most likely
 
hackmeplz

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If you bet the turn however he can raise you and it's probably gonna be a min-raise like most fish do, forcing you to call, whereas a check pot controls it with a mediocre hand and allows you to keep your equity in case your hand is no good (and it's probably not) and you hit you're flush or trips.

You realize if we're "forced to call" that's actually better in terms of ev than him raising enough for us to fold? For the most part he's not going to raise, and when he does raise we're getting plenty of odds/implied odds to call. Doesn't sound all that bad to me.
 
Yoshimiii

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You realize if we're "forced to call" that's actually better in terms of ev than him raising enough for us to fold? For the most part he's not going to raise, and when he does raise we're getting plenty of odds/implied odds to call. Doesn't sound all that bad to me.

Yes but if we check then he can't raise us anyway, I do know him min-raising is better than him raising alot bigger. I just don't see point in building pot up against a fish when we are probably behind.
 
WVHillbilly

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Yes but if we check then he can't raise us anyway, I do know him min-raising is better than him raising alot bigger. I just don't see point in building pot up against a fish when we are probably behind.
But if we check the turn he can't fold his equity either. And we can be building a pot with the best hand already AND he can be drawing to the lesser flush so a bigger pot on the river allows us to win the rest of his stack more easily. We also have position so we can decide to check behind on the river and SD our bottom pair.
 
forsakenone

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Well guys, actually I think I got the most money I could ever get in this spot because if I double barrel here I am pretty sure he would folded, regardless from now on I think I will bet bet bet against this opponent. This is what he had:

888 Poker - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $30.00
SB: $17.51 (VPIP: 43.75, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: $34.82 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.81, 3Bet Preflop: 5.17, Hands: 144)
UTG: $73.57 (VPIP: 48.39, PFR: 12.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
CO: $30.72 (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has A:club: 4:club:

fold, CO calls $0.30, Hero raises to $1.01, fold, fold, CO calls $0.71

Flop: ($2.47, 2 players) 5:club: T:club: 4:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets $1.80, CO calls $1.80

Turn: ($6.07, 2 players) J:heart:
CO checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.07, 2 players) 4:diamond:
CO bets $3.03, Hero calls $3.03

CO shows 7:diamond: 7:club: (Two Pair, Sevens and Fours) (Pre 66%, Flop 50%, Turn 70%)
Hero shows A:club: 4:club: (Three of a Kind, Fours) (Pre 34%, Flop 50%, Turn 30%)
Hero wins $11.53
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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so.. what about when you dont hit.

barrel turn, SD just proves people points even more.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Precisely why you want to be double barreling. You can hardly ever extract value from sevens on the river. Turn bet forces him out with all these type of hands.
 
c9h13no3

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Checking the turn is absolutely fine. There were few draws save yours, we have SD value, position, and a fishy opponent that is unlikely to fold. The turn isn't a good barreling card either. Easy on the group-think, because this is a fine spot to take the freebie.

I raise the river. Your line is quite weak, so he could be betting quite thin here. Plus you rep missed flush draws to villain.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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build a bigger pot when you hit, have a pair of fours.
These are arguments for checking. But you're logic deficient, so I expected that.

1) Yes, you make the pot bigger when you hit. But its also bigger when you miss. And we miss more often. We're intersted in EV, not winning big pots.

2) Your pair of fours has shit for showdown value when you barrel twice. When you barrel once you improve your 4's equity because his bluffs don't fold. Hence why Ac7c is a better hand to bet here than our A4.
 
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