$25 NLHE 6-max: TPTK oop on paired board

J

js520

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This is $30 NLHE

only 14 hands on villain so not much to go on but his stats were 43/0/60 so that coupled with his stack size we can assume he's bad.

Just basically want to know if anyone would have played this any differently? Is bet/bet/bet the right way to go against this guy, and what about sizing? River I beat just nothing when he raises so even though i'm getting like 6 to 1 can we fold?

888 Poker - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: $21.29
SB: $28.16
BB: $47.03
UTG: $42.90
Hero (MP): $38.49
CO: $41.69

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has Ks As

fold, Hero raises to $0.90, CO calls $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, fold, fold

Flop: ($3.15, 3 players) Kc Qd Qh
Hero bets $2.10, fold, BTN calls $2.10

Turn: ($7.35, 2 players) 6s
Hero bets $4.20, BTN calls $4.20

River: ($15.75, 2 players) 9c
Hero bets $8.10, BTN raises to $14.09, Hero calls $5.99
 
youregoodmate

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I like a c/c on the turn, and then fold to a decent sized river bet.

As played we need to be right a little less than 20% of the time and I dont think we ever will be. Doubt he is ever bluffing here.
 
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I like a c/c on the turn, and then fold to a decent sized river bet.

As played we need to be right a little less than 20% of the time and I dont think we ever will be. Doubt he is ever bluffing here.


I agree that the river has to be a fold because he almost always has Qx or JT.

However, once we check the turn (after betting flop) aren't we just giving him an easy way to bluff us off our king here if we do have him beat. It will be obvious that we don't have a Q as we would always be betting again on the turn. I just find it tough to c/c the turn considering I don't see how when we check the river that he isn't going to bet into us.

Just a thought.
 
forsakenone

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I would play it the same, except I just shove river.
 
Ducky7

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I would play it the same, except I just shove river.

This, by shoving the river you get him to call wider when we have him beat and when he a Q you get called and we are beat but it just saves you the trouble of this spot you have now posted
 
WVHillbilly

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I would play it the same, except I just shove river.
Yep. He has less than a PSB left on the river, just get it in. As for checking the turn, I hate the thought of it. He's obviously a station so take advantage of that and bet.
 
Ducky7

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I like a c/c on the turn, and then fold to a decent sized river bet.

As played we need to be right a little less than 20% of the time and I dont think we ever will be. Doubt he is ever bluffing here.

This is too passive against a fish whos running the stats this villain is, we should be taking him to value town, if he has a Q he will let us know way before the river anyway
 
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js520

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if he has a Q he will let us know way before the river anyway

I wouldn't say that, fish love slow playing.

But anyway the essence of what everyone is saying is just get the money in by the river as the times he calls down with worse kings outweighs the times he has us beat?
 
The Messiah

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I wouldn't say that, fish love slow playing.

But anyway the essence of what everyone is saying is just get the money in by the river as the times he calls down with worse kings outweighs the times he has us beat?

Exactly!
 
WVHillbilly

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I wouldn't say that, fish love slow playing.

But anyway the essence of what everyone is saying is just get the money in by the river as the times he calls down with worse kings outweighs the times he has us beat?
Yes basically. Fish talk themselves into calling with all kinds of crap here.
 
acky100

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I wouldn't say that, fish love slow playing.

But anyway the essence of what everyone is saying is just get the money in by the river as the times he calls down with worse kings outweighs the times he has us beat?

only because of his such whaletard stats, vs regs on boards like this you really would be stupid to go wild bet bet betting usually and it might be worth just checking the flop. (just saying cause lots of regs make the mistake of betting flop and turn here etc)
 
Ducky7

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only because of his such whaletard stats, vs regs on boards like this you really would be stupid to go wild bet bet betting usually and it might be worth just checking the flop. (just saying cause lots of regs make the mistake of betting flop and turn here etc)

We are against a fish with TPTK, we are getting 3 streets of value Acky, hes a fish he will call super wide OTF anyway, any gutters, any pair he has, and draw so not betting is just silly.
 
youregoodmate

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I really dont think we would get 3 streets of value from a King here. So for me hes only calling us on the turn with Qx or J10, and if he doesnt fold a King, Im certain he will to a river bet.
 
Ducky7

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I really dont think we would get 3 streets of value from a King here. So for me hes only calling us on the turn with Qx or J10, and if he doesnt fold a King, Im certain he will to a river bet.

A fish is not folding top pair, they cant do it
 
youregoodmate

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I think we lose our stack to a Q or rarely J10, far more often than we stack him with top pair. Its 3 way to the flop as well, Qx or J10 are a big part of his range after he calls the flop.
 
WVHillbilly

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I think we lose our stack to a Q or rarely J10, far more often than we stack him with top pair. Its 3 way to the flop as well, Qx or J10 are a big part of his range after he calls the flop.
So is everything else he called with preflop.
 
youregoodmate

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So is everything else he called with preflop.

I know he looks bad, but I still dont think we'll get a call on the flop from a PP. Maybe heads up, but not 3 handed. I just think we lose our stack more frequently than we make profit here by triple barrelling.

Maybe Im just giving him too much credit.
 
acky100

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We are against a fish with TPTK, we are getting 3 streets of value Acky, hes a fish he will call super wide OTF anyway, any gutters, any pair he has, and draw so not betting is just silly.

You do realise i was in favor of tripling?
 
acky100

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Also think its not a super obvious triple for value, you can tell me we have tptk against a fish all you want but fact is that he has top pair a pretty similar amount to the times he has trips, if he's calling any Kxo its an obvious triple barrel, if hes more selective and only playing suited kings and maybe K8o then you're gonna run into trips just as much as worse Kx, so depending on the fish i'd be tempted to take a line like youregoodmate suggested where we x/c although i'd want to bet flop and turn to get value from draws (although he has a small number of draws) and maybe x/c rivers if he's gonna bet missed draws every time or if you have a read that he is really passive you could comfortably x/f the river. But all in all i think a lot of people are not understanding that its actually quite thin to triple for value here.
 
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only because of his such whaletard stats, vs regs on boards like this you really would be stupid to go wild bet bet betting usually and it might be worth just checking the flop. (just saying cause lots of regs make the mistake of betting flop and turn here etc)

Yea I wouldn't have bet 3 streets against a reg here. What would your line be against a reg though? Obviously read dependent but lets say we are against a reg type who doesnt really do anything our of the ordinary, i'm thinking bet flop, x/c turn, x/f river or if he checks back turn b/f river. What u reckon?
 
WVHillbilly

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Yea I wouldn't have bet 3 streets against a reg here. What would your line be against a reg though? Obviously read dependent but lets say we are against a reg type who doesnt really do anything our of the ordinary, i'm thinking bet flop, x/c turn, x/f river or if he checks back turn b/f river. What u reckon?
You'd be better to check the flop than the turn imo.
 
acky100

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Yea I wouldn't have bet 3 streets against a reg here. What would your line be against a reg though? Obviously read dependent but lets say we are against a reg type who doesnt really do anything our of the ordinary, i'm thinking bet flop, x/c turn, x/f river or if he checks back turn b/f river. What u reckon?

It'd depend on the reg a lot, if he's cold calling relatively tight say 7% then we probably dont wanna go wild c-betting this flop in general so checking back a hand like AK is pretty good to balance the times we just x/f. If he cold calls really wide like 12% + and is really good to the point where we need to balance we should just bet our whole range on this flop expecting to get like 50% + folds when we have a hand like 22. I like checking back with our hand specifically though because i dont think we need to worry about balance vs 99% of regs you'll be playing and when we have AK it makes his range miss the flop a decent bit more so probably x/c x/c x/f or x/c x/f if hes unlikely to barrel twice with lower pairs etc. C-betting AK vs a standard tight reg in these positions on this flop isnt great and when balance isnt of concern (which is rarely is) we should just check as when we bet he has just as many sets in his range than worse top pairs (very few worse top pairs - which we dont need to get our value on the flop and arent ever getting more than 1 or 2 streets anyways and mayaswel induce bluffs by checking flop)
 
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You'd be better to check the flop than the turn imo.

I 100% agree but I just want to make sure my reasoning is right.

I feel like betting the flop just looks like a typical c-bet and will get called a large portion of the time, many times with hands that we beat. Once we check the turn, we give the opp. a sign of weakness and I think many good opponents would take this and put enough aggression on us to make us fold the hand.

However, a check/call flop and bet on the turn looks way stronger.
 
The Messiah

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I 100% agree but I just want to make sure my reasoning is right.

I feel like betting the flop just looks like a typical c-bet and will get called a large portion of the time, many times with hands that we beat. Once we check the turn, we give the opp. a sign of weakness and I think many good opponents would take this and put enough aggression on us to make us fold the hand.

However, a check/call flop and bet on the turn looks way stronger.

The whole purpose of our check on the flop is to be perceived as weak, so as to open up his bluffing range.(we dont want to look strong)
Hes most likely to check back flop, we then check turn again, this will be the point in which he will most likely bet his bluffing range,Kx, then we get 2 nice streets from his Kx,Qx and bluffing range.Which we wouldnt of got by bet/bet/bet, just his Kx(2 streets), Qx(cooler, but also minimizing losses) and most important his bluffing range that he now has which can be ATC which opens up his range(you being paid) by your dominating hand.
 
acky100

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Think your reasoning is all wrong im Sori to say :D

This is a flop that will probably get a lot of folds vs a lot of 25nl regs who call any PP IP. Checking flop is good because its hard to get called by worse, people dont just think oh he cbets this a lot i call with 77 unless its like 2nl. When we do get called he has a lot of trips, some worse top pairs but not many cause we have AK and a few draws, and its gonna be hard to call down if he wants to bluff us with these draws and we are only gonna get a little value from worse kings like 1 street anyways so we may aswel get this later when we check the flop this way we dont fold his bluffs and actually get more value if that makes sense?
 
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