$25 NLHE 6-max: TPTK NFD vs KK

akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($38.66)
BB ($13.26)
UTG ($26.67)
Hero (MP) ($25)
CO ($25.50)
Button ($39.12)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 10
spade.gif
, A
spade.gif

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises to $2.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.75) 6
spade.gif
, 10
club.gif
, 4
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.60, SB raises to $5.50, Hero raises to $22.75 (All-In), SB calls $17.25

Turn: ($50.25) K
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50.25) 10
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.25 | Rake: $2

Results below:
SB had K
club.gif
, K
heart.gif
(full house, Kings over tens).
Hero didn't show 10
spade.gif
, A
spade.gif
(three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: SB won $48.25

Villain was 18/9/2 but only have 49 hands on him.

How would you all have played it? Did I play it too aggro?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Easy fold pre. Fold the flop after he takes the "**** you blind stealer" line.

The guy is a nit and he's obviously very confident about his hand. You shouldn't need much of an excuse to find the eject button, and yet you get your stack in. A mistake like this is more common for a 1c/2c player, and it should really make you think twice about playing at 25NL.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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we can't fold flop

pre's pretty obv fold though
 
rickypr18

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You should fold preflop. Otherwise, I think you played it fine. You were a slight favorite on the flop, and it's not too bad to play your big draws aggressively. You have fold equity against some opponents, but apparently not this one.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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Easy fold pre. Fold the flop after he takes the "**** you blind stealer" line.

The guy is a nit and he's obviously very confident about his hand. You shouldn't need much of an excuse to find the eject button, and yet you get your stack in. A mistake like this is more common for a 1c/2c player, and it should really make you think twice about playing at 25NL.

I can understand folding pre. But if im playing A10s, surely when I get a flop like that im going no where? I'm favorite too.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I can understand folding pre. But if im playing A10s, surely when I get a flop like that im going no where? I'm favorite too.
Yeah, I didn't see the spade draw. Still, the call pre is a pretty big leak unless he 3-bets like 15% here.
 
R

rhombus

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So if A10s is a leak what hands would you call the 3bet.

AQ+, 99+ as smaller pairs not deep enough to set mine.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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So if A10s is a leak what hands would you call the 3bet.

AQ+, 99+ as smaller pairs not deep enough to set mine.
he's an 18/9, so I'd bet his 3-bet range is like 4%. I'd call with JJ, QQ, and AKs if I thought he was straight forward post flop. But he check/raised as the PFR, so I'd probably have no 3-bet calling range against him 100 bb's deep.
 
rickypr18

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You should fold preflop. Otherwise, I think you played it fine. You were a slight favorite on the flop, and it's not too bad to play your big draws aggressively. You have fold equity against some opponents, but apparently not this one.

What the hell?
 
S

swingro

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So if A10s is a leak what hands would you call the 3bet.

AQ+, 99+ as smaller pairs not deep enough to set mine.
Think about A10s for a second. What is your plan when calling a 3-bet? "If that kind of board comes than i will do that". What kind of board do you need to hit on the flop and how often does it happen? Monster draws do not hit that often .
AQ+, 99,JJ,QQ the same thing. What do you hope to hit and how often it happens so you can beat his 3-bet range? Add the times when you actually hit the monster and you do not get payed.
And another thing . A range of 5% 3-bet is actually much stronger than it looks. You need a lot of hands to be sure he is not 3-betting only QQ+,AK
 
Speedexas

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You should fold preflop. Otherwise, I think you played it fine. You were a slight favorite on the flop, and it's not too bad to play your big draws aggressively. You have fold equity against some opponents, but apparently not this one.

What the hell?

He's right , Hero had 52% equity vs villains 48% on the flop according to pokerstove. But in general he needed to fold preflop , he just gambled here.
 
DaReKa

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You should think about flatting the raise on the flop. You don't have a draw; you have a made hand, and you're forcing out many hands that your made hand is way ahead of. When villain is OOP he will often continue with bluffs. Think about how +EV it is to keep weaker flush draws in the hand. Not to mention he can just spew with total air.

I don't think it is necessarily a spot to fold to the 3bet preflop. It's a relatively small 3bet and you're in position, so you can call. But just realize you have a trouble hand when you do hit the Ace, and you don't want to play purely fit or fold, but at the same time don't get crazy and spew. So basically, you should have strong postflop skills to call the 3bet.
 
T

thatgreekdude

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He's right , Hero had 52% equity vs villains 48% on the flop according to pokerstove. But in general he needed to fold preflop , he just gambled here.

i think the 'what the hell'? was more that they stole Ricky's post :D

you played this one fine mate, you could probably of let it go pre but with that flop you're a favourite against any overpair, pair that with fold equity and shoving is 100% the correct play in my opinion.
 
H

hffjd2000

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I surely believe you played it aggressively.

On the flop, you know that you are still behind and he is giving you a free card.
 
1

13anurag

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You're opponent's stat seem to show he 3bets 4-5% of his hands, and considering here, he has 3bet you from the small blind, it means he does have a strong hand. So you should fold.

There is also a case that can be made, for calling preflop. You can call preflop with ATss, if you're planning to fold to a 10 high flop, incase there was 'NO' flush draw, if it was Txx, with no spade your plan must've been to check behind or insta fold to a raise.
I think, you should also plan to fold/check behind a Axx board, as your opponent can easily have a bigger kicker.
But, if you do hit the flop like you did, which was getting lucky btw, you in most of the cases, do get your opponent to pay you off!

So, if you're confident that you can outplay your opponent post flop, and your opponent has been a bit loose post flop, then you can call. But, mostly, just fold!
 
akaRobbo

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You're opponent's stat seem to show he 3bets 4-5% of his hands, and considering here, he has 3bet you from the small blind, it means he does have a strong hand. So you should fold.

There is also a case that can be made, for calling preflop. You can call preflop with ATss, if you're planning to fold to a 10 high flop, incase there was 'NO' flush draw, if it was Txx, with no spade your plan must've been to check behind or insta fold to a raise.
I think, you should also plan to fold/check behind a Axx board, as your opponent can easily have a bigger kicker.
But, if you do hit the flop like you did, which was getting lucky btw, you in most of the cases, do get your opponent to pay you off!

So, if you're confident that you can outplay your opponent post flop, and your opponent has been a bit loose post flop, then you can call. But, mostly, just fold!

I agree with all that you said. Yeah im pretty much always x/f is theres no draw.

Its just whether or not were much of a gambler isn't it, and what were willing to stack off with in situations like this?

You know tighter players will have better holdings, but their fold equity is greater surely?

Took what you all said on board. In the long run its probably not worth getting involved in these hands, as our value is picked up in much easier situations, at these sort of stakes.
 
John A

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Not sure what the plan was pre-flop? But a pretty clear fold with stacks this shallow.

I'd probably check through on the flop a lot. If someone like this isn't c-betting, they don't have a hand that is c/fing typically speaking. I don't think the flop bet is horrible, you have TP and a nut flush draw. The issue is that if people have Ax here, they are usually betting or planning to c/c. They aren't ever c/fing, especially considering the pre-flop positions where all the raises came from. On the flop pretty clear call. You have zero FE in a spot like this if you have an opponent with stats like this 3-betting your OOP and then check min raising you... they have a real hand they are looking to stack off with. So might as well call and evaluate the turn.
 
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13anurag

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I agree with all that you said. Yeah im pretty much always x/f is theres no draw.

Its just whether or not were much of a gambler isn't it, and what were willing to stack off with in situations like this?

You know tighter players will have better holdings, but their fold equity is greater surely?

Took what you all said on board. In the long run its probably not worth getting involved in these hands, as our value is picked up in much easier situations, at these sort of stakes.

You know it (calling there with ATss) comes down to 2 things, 1. Being deep stacked and 2. Believing that you have an edge over your opponent post flop as a player.
If you're deep stacked and you feel your opponent is a fishy player then suited cards are perfect, specially when you have position on them. Also, if you're willing to let go of your hand incase you flop a 1-pair no draw kind of hand.
 
IPlay

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I don't personally like the shove, maybe a 3 bet instead. The shove just screams that you want a fold.

Honestly, I think I would prefer to flat and jam turn instead. Looks much stronger
 
Last edited:
R

rhombus

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Not sure what the plan was pre-flop? But a pretty clear fold with stacks this shallow.

Whats classes as shallow effective stacks were $25. so to cal the 3bet was $1.50 about 16/1 of effective stacks. I know set mining you normally want around 20/1 so does the same aply to Flush draws or is it 20/1 for suited connectors like 78s
 
Salvete777

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Well - in this situation i think you should just fold preflop..
 
Lmbeach

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Against this player, I'd be inclined to fold pre as well. There aren't many boards we are going to like post.

On the flop we are ahead of his overall range by a slim margin (overpairs, basically, and AK... but I don't think he check/raises AK - we hold the As). If we raise his check-raise and he shoves we are calling anyway. He check raised so small I think I'd call and draw for a turned T,A or Spade. If he check raised larger I'd shove. The main problem with flatting there is all of those cards are scare cards and our villain will be much less willing to put money into the pot with a turned A/T/S with his most likely holdings.

Edit to say: if we call flop check-raise and the turn misses us and he blows the pot up I'm willing to fold, he won't fold to a raise on the turn after leading it big. I'd also check behind if he checks.
 
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Keith_MM

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25nl flopped boat 132bb deep

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $33.74 (135 bb)
BB: $27.98 (111.9 bb)
Hero (MP): $33.09 (132.4 bb)
CO: $9.65 (38.6 bb)
BTN: $41.34 (165.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J
spade4.gif
J
heart4.gif

Hero raises to $1, CO folds, BTN calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) T
club4.gif
J
diamond4.gif
T
heart4.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, BTN raises to $5, Hero calls $3.25

Turn: ($12.35) 5
club4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($12.35) A
club4.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $11.79, BTN raises to $35.34 and is all-in, Hero calls $15.30 and is all-in

Results: $66.53 pot ($2.00 rake)

villain is 28/18 over 808 hands, 4.8% 3bet and raises flop cbet 10% of time.
when he raised the flop was afraid that a reraise would fold out any of his bluff raises on the flop.Checked the turn expecting to see him bet the turn and intending to then click it back and set him a price that he'd call easily and set up an easy bet on the river that he'd be priced to call.

When he checked behind on the turn, I'm not sure that i priced it correctly on the river either, straights could fold fearing the flush or whether it looks bluffy repping Ax and could get called/shoved over by worse hand than i actually hold. my hand strength is under repped. I don't see him having AA here else he 3bets pre, and TT never checks behind on the turn so pretty sure i have the nuts .thoughts?
 
Keith_MM

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dam ...thats trying to post while playing . reposting it in a new thread
 
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