Originally Posted by John A
I think your pre-flop raise is fine. In fact, it's the most ideal play imho. If I ever have someone bad enough to limp into the SB in my games, I'm always raising 4x the BB. I don't care what hand I have. I probably draw the line at 72o, but probably play 82o. If they are fishy and coming into the pot like that, then it's pretty certain you'll out play them post flop with position. And you always want to build a pot in position against a weaker player. Poker 101.
I think you are 80% wrong.
Poker 101 is not building a pot in position against a weaker player. While it is nice to have when you can, its not the most basic thing.
You want to make sure that you are building a pot commensurate with the hand strength you are likely to have against an unknown player.
We are not using position here to our advantage. Position doesn't mean we get to bet whenever we want without considering what the implications are. Position means we get to have information about what our opponent has done and we get to capitalize on that information.
In this case we have a person who limped, and we have a hand that is likely to be worse than his. While I am not completely against stealing from the BB, I don't think it ideal. We can take his money on the flop more easily than we can pre-flop.
I want to stress again the question of WHY we are betting preflop. If it is to simply take his SB, then wait til the flop - we have more information and he is more likely to fold.
If it is for value then we have to weak of a hand.
If it is to abuse position we are not abusing position, because he is likely to call.
If we know that he is likely to fold his limp then betting is great.
If we know he is likely to fold on the flop after he has called a bet, even better.
We don't know any of that. We just know he limps.
We are playing with a substandard hand against an unknown player and we don't know what anything means.
Play it safe and do the move that is more likely to win until you know more about this guy.
And saying that you are likely to outplay this person is a fools errand, what does that even mean? You can't outplay an unknown player, you can guess and hope that you are guessing correctly. Who knows why they are making the decision they are making and what made them pick it this time. Is he hiding a monster that he hopes to slow play on a later street? Is he a calling station willing to throw away money to see the next card? Is he certain that the BB is trying to bluff him because blind v blind is always some strange contest of manhood?
The point is playing bad hands is not a great answer. And it is not poker 101, playing good hands and using position to beat your opponents is poker 101. Encouraging a learning player to do what you are saying is going to lead to them losing money.