$25 NLHE 6-max: Quads. took weird line?

Seraphim

Seraphim

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1. Do we 3 bet the flop?
2. What could he betting the flop with other than Ax or air?
3. If we do flat the flop 2bet, do we then cc or cr the turn? If we do cc the turn, do we cr river or lead?
4. Thoughts on my line, as played?


PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $8.05
CO: $30.41
BTN: $62.01
Hero (SB): $25.44
BB: $34.61
UTG: $16.70

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 6:club: 6:heart:

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.00, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.00, 2 players) A:heart: 6:diamond: 6:spade:
Hero bets $1.25, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($7.00, 2 players) K:spade:
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($7.00, 2 players) A:diamond:
Hero bets $21.94 and is all-in, fold

Hero shows 6:club: 6:heart: (Four of a Kind, Sixes)

Hero wins $6.65
 
Seraphim

Seraphim

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This one is for the lolz.


PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $13.03
BB: $25.00
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $28.65

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q:spade: J:spade:

Hero raises to $0.85, fold, SB calls $0.75, fold

Flop: ($1.95, 2 players) 8:club: A:diamond: 6:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets $1.20, SB calls $1.20

Turn: ($4.35, 2 players) T:club:
SB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

River: ($4.85, 2 players) 8:spade:
SB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, SB calls $0.00

SB shows 5:spade: 9:diamond: (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 31%, Flop 39%, Turn 16%)
Hero shows Q:spade: J:spade: (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 69%, Flop 61%, Turn 84%)
Hero wins $6.04
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Zeebo likes the first hand.
 
O

Omri266

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The first hand was great.
If your opponent with A, he calls your all - in.

The second hand - you were lucky on the river.
I think you should re-raise his small bet on the turn.
Most of time he make a small bet because he want to buy a cheap card. not because he is strong because he lost a lot of volue.

If he calls (you need to make a big bet, something like 75-100% of the pot) you need to leave the river.
In the river you can go for a big bet / all - in if you got the straight and there is not flush on the board.
 
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glemly

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I only looked at the first hand. But I believe the best move here is to shoot for a value bet. I would say anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 pot. Since you gave no stats on Villain, going for a value bet almost always is the best move. Unless he has reason to believe you are all-in bluffing, he is only going to call here with a strong ace. If he doesn't know much about your play styles either, he is going to give you credit even though it's an all-in move.

By value betting the river after a check - check turn makes you look a lot weaker than you are, and almost looks like a probe bet. He will probably call you with any ace, and maybe even a king or lower pocket pair depending on how you size your river bet. You just don't have a good idea where you stand once it's your turn to act on the river. I know it can be tempting to try to maximize your potential value by shoving it in when you have the stone cold nuts, but I feel like there is more money to be earned with value bets, especially when you don't know how strong Villain is.
 
Seraphim

Seraphim

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I only looked at the first hand. But I believe the best move here is to shoot for a value bet. I would say anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 pot. Since you gave no stats on Villain, going for a value bet almost always is the best move. Unless he has reason to believe you are all-in bluffing, he is only going to call here with a strong ace. If he doesn't know much about your play styles either, he is going to give you credit even though it's an all-in move.

By value betting the river after a check - check turn makes you look a lot weaker than you are, and almost looks like a probe bet. He will probably call you with any ace, and maybe even a king or lower pocket pair depending on how you size your river bet. You just don't have a good idea where you stand once it's your turn to act on the river. I know it can be tempting to try to maximize your potential value by shoving it in when you have the stone cold nuts, but I feel like there is more money to be earned with value bets, especially when you don't know how strong Villain is.

Ok, so, give me a hand that he is 2betting the flop with, that is not an ace. There are no draws on the flop, so he polarizes his range with the 2bet. He either has Ax+ or complete air. Is his air range ever calling a standard value bet, otr? No. I'm also going to assume that he's always stacking off with Ax here. I think we maximize our value against his perceived range, with the shove. Also, a shove can be a value bet. I'm not bluff shoving.
 
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W

wildice13

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Ok, so, give me a hand that he is 2betting the flop with, that is not an ace. There are no draws on the flop, so he polarizes his range with the 2bet. He either has Ax+ or complete air. Is his air range ever calling a standard value bet, otr? No. I'm also going to assume that he's always stacking off with Ax here. I think we maximize our value against his perceived range, with the shove. Also, a shove can be a value bet. I'm not bluff shoving.

a fair bit of the time i would say he would raise an ace high flop with air, just because it's sb vs bb, villain is more often than not putting you on a wide range, and he even folds out pretty much all pairs below jacks, let alone the air. depending on your table image of course.

agree with the value bet on the river instead of the shove, after you checkthe turn it keeps hands as low as Kx calling.
 
Figaroo2

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He could easily have ace/small here that won't call a shove but might call a suck bet. I'd go 25-50% on the end hoping for a call but giving him some room to get fruity. Only an ace with a very good kicker would call a shove there and those hands probably 3bet you preflop.
 
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weldphaser

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First hand.

Wish we had some reads. But like everything but the river. Of course he did only min raise the flop. Hmmm

But anyway he's not folding an A otr. Being said he was FOS from jump street. So I don't see ya getting any more value in this hand unless a small bet on the turn. Tuff
 
weldphaser

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He could easily have ace/small here that won't call a shove but might call a suck bet. I'd go 25-50% on the end hoping for a call but giving him some room to get fruity. Only an ace with a very good kicker would call a shove there and those hands probably 3bet you preflop.

See this is where reads are necessary. I don't see a villain who min raises the flop folding an ace of any sort. I could be wrong
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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He could easily have ace/small here that won't call a shove but might call a suck bet. I'd go 25-50% on the end hoping for a call but giving him some room to get fruity. Only an ace with a very good kicker would call a shove there and those hands probably 3bet you preflop.
The kicker does not play on the A66A board. No difference between A2 and AK.
 
Figaroo2

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The kicker does not play on the A66A board. No difference between A2 and AK.
Confused by the 2ND posted hand. Yeah deffo shove, scrolled and looked at wrong river.
 
Thinker_145

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Why would you even bet the river? If he has an ace he is betting anyways and never ever folding to your CR. He is only beat by AK and 66 its almost impossible for anyone to get away with an ace.

Now you could get value from a K but for that you will have to bet really small. Heck if you check the river I would be tempted to thin value bet my K. So its definitely check OTR.

The only way to have played the hand differently is to 3 bet the flop but we should never do that against a good player. If he has AA he is toast anyways and all other hands we most probably scare away. But we can 3 bet the flop if we are up against a fish as they might have difficulty folding ace with good kicker.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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glemly

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Ok, so, give me a hand that he is 2betting the flop with, that is not an ace. There are no draws on the flop, so he polarizes his range with the 2bet. He either has Ax+ or complete air. Is his air range ever calling a standard value bet, otr? No. I'm also going to assume that he's always stacking off with Ax here. I think we maximize our value against his perceived range, with the shove. Also, a shove can be a value bet. I'm not bluff shoving.

i had to double check what a 2bet was because I had never heard that terminology used before :D

ok, so since we don't know anything about this player, his 2bet range could be very wide. I think the most likely scenario by far is that he called the initial raise with a pocket pair. He's checking through because the ace and king cards scare him. He could even have something as good as QQ here if he is tight. He is also assuming that an ace or king is likely in your raising range, so he is being cautious.

So once again, I think that a small value bet is best on the river.
 
Seraphim

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i had to double check what a 2bet was because I had never heard that terminology used before :D

ok, so since we don't know anything about this player, his 2bet range could be very wide. I think the most likely scenario by far is that he called the initial raise with a pocket pair. He's checking through because the ace and king cards scare him. He could even have something as good as QQ here if he is tight. He is also assuming that an ace or king is likely in your raising range, so he is being cautious.

So once again, I think that a small value bet is best on the river.

Why would he 2 bet the flop? That's the whole issue here, it's what defines his range.
 
c9h13no3

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Why would he 2 bet the flop? That's the whole issue here, it's what defines his range.
Every now and then you'll see fish min-raise pocket pairs on a board like this, to "see where they are" or because they believe they're ahead but they don't know what to do about it. So it's not just AX, but maybe a pair or two in there. Still doesn't change the hand much.
 
LD1977

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Incredible number of people ITT don't understand when kickers are not important. He is not folding an Ace but I guess we found like 3 people here who wouldn't bet it either because apparently kicker trouble.

Paradoxically, we are looking for value from people who are smart enough to realize kicker is irrelevant (usually such shoves target the dumbest opponents). I approve of the whole thread.

P.S. I once shoved river like this on AAQ77 board with quad sevens, the guy wrote "AQ" in chat and folded. True story (50NL Zoom). Not sure I believe him though ;)
 
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alipalip

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First hand
1. Do we 3 bet the flop?
2. What could he betting the flop with other than Ax or air?
3. If we do flat the flop 2bet, do we then cc or cr the turn? If we do cc the turn, do we cr river or lead?
4. Thoughts on my line, as played?

1.Don`t think so you need to 3 bet.
2.PP like 22-55,77-KK, Broadways KT+ QJ
3. C/R turn is the best line i think
4. You played well, at the river half pot bet is enough i think so there is place for Villain to bloff
 
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hffjd2000

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First hand, I would value bet again on turn. River, play is fine for me.

Second hand, funny plays.
 
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