$25 NLHE 6-max: QQ deep Hero 3bs, faces aggression post

IPlay

IPlay

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Readless Zone poker on Bovada. Respeck the heater, think I peaked at a 1,120BB stack this night.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 101.4 BB
UTG: 64.52 BB
MP: 173.36 BB
CO: 50.24 BB
Hero (BTN): 927.88 BB
SB: 199.16 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:heart: Q:club:

fold, MP raises to 3.4 BB, fold, Hero raises to 12.6 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 9.2 BB

Flop: (26.6 BB, 2 players) 8:heart: 4:diamond: T:spade:
MP checks, Hero bets 16.4 BB, MP raises to 37.88 BB, Hero calls 21.48 BB

Turn: (102.36 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:
MP bets 60.16 BB, Hero ???

There is 122BB effective behind going to turn and if I call turn we have 62BB effective with a 220BB pot so turn is basically a shove because I will never be able to fold river once I call and I assume the rest is going in on river the vast majority of the time. Is this logic wrong?

Now what can villain have here, since we are so deep he can realistically have 88,99,1010 that crushes me and I wouldn't be too surprised to see KK sometimes. The question is does villain play JJ like this? Does he bluff post like this with AK?
 
mbrenneman0

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Definitely a tough spot. You don't have enough outs to improve and I don't think villain is bluffing. I think the only hand villain plays this way that you beat is JJ and maybe, very maybe bluffing with AK, but even if he does bluff ace king, that's still not enough of his range to justify calling. I think you're right to fold here. Gross spot, I don't think you could have played any differently.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Readless I fold turn, there just aren't too many things you beat I think. AK wouldn't play like this, probably 4-bets pre or c/f, I think.
 
c9h13no3

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When you're deep, I prefer to alter the size of my 3-bet to get the right stack to pot ratio. Since we're in position, I'd either call pre, or min-3bet. We want calls with a wide range but we also don't want to get all in with an SPR of 6-10 unimproved.

You could also bump it up more pre to get the SPR right, but then you only get calls from like TT+ & AK.
 
TimovieMan

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The only hand you beat that plays like this is JJ, imo. The rest has you crushed here. Fold.
 
TheBigFinn

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JT of hearts will also play this way, but that's only one combo. I have found the trick to winning at Zoom is naked aggression tempered with fear. A high pair does not often win at show down. The stating hands are tighter at Zoom, making the flops stronger.

When you were 3-bet pre and then re-raised on the flop, what is the point of calling the re-raise? You leave villain with one pot size bet left and cede control of the hand by calling which looks weak. If he was bluffing, you encourage him to double barrel. If you are behind, you only have two outs, so you should either push or fold to the flop re-raise.

With the relatively dry board, I fold.
 
IPlay

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When you're deep, I prefer to alter the size of my 3-bet to get the right stack to pot ratio. Since we're in position, I'd either call pre, or min-3bet. We want calls with a wide range but we also don't want to get all in with an SPR of 6-10 unimproved.

You could also bump it up more pre to get the SPR right, but then you only get calls from like TT+ & AK.

I did 4x pre and don't think going any larger makes sense. Why on earth would I min 3 bet QQ this deep? I don't really want villains calling with their entire range to make playing post hell.
 
c9h13no3

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I did 4x pre and don't think going any larger makes sense. Why on earth would I min 3 bet QQ this deep? I don't really want villains calling with their entire range to make playing post hell.
It just clarifies which stack to pot regime you're playing in. And I don't think it makes playing post hell, it just puts you in a clear spot where you don't want to put your stack in.
 
IPlay

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But I do want to get my stack in the vast majority of the time
 
John A

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It seems like a pretty straight forward fold. Way more combos of hands that beat you, than hands you beat. And honestly I'd consider this hand a win since your opponent played it horribly and allowed you to get away.
 
mbrenneman0

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It seems like a pretty straight forward fold. Way more combos of hands that beat you, than hands you beat. And honestly I'd consider this hand a win since your opponent played it horribly and allowed you to get away.

If you're villain, and you have high pocket pair, or flopped a set, are you flat calling the flop and check/raising the turn? Im not really sure what villain would do differently to play pocket pair or a set better on this hand.
 
John A

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If you're villain, and you have high pocket pair, or flopped a set, are you flat calling the flop and check/raising the turn? Im not really sure what villain would do differently to play pocket pair or a set better on this hand.

Correct. I'd flat call and then bet/bet. It's your best chance for max value vs. a competent opponent. If you CR somewhere here and you have KK/AA, you'll lose a good amount of value this deep typically speaking. Even at this level.
 
Aces2w1n

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Yeah simple fold turn.

I don't even like the check raise and that's the first alarm bell, but he could be doing this with JJ or straight draws or a wide of hands.

When he leads out the turn we need to really know our opponent is he regular or a fish?? But at this stage the way the cards are we should definetly just fold anyway. I mean a fish will play this way with 2 pair even. They don't know much at all.
 
IPlay

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O RLY? You made an over pair in a 3-bet pot that's an easy fold, but you still want to get your stack in "the vast majority of the time"?

Yes, and this run out is not part of the vast majority.

I have the 3rd best starting hand in poker, my goal is to build a pot with it. Doesn't mean I'm not folding some of the time.

FWIW, I checked the HH this morning and villain had JJ.... (I folded turn) Tilttttt!!! I'm not sure if villain is a sicko that turned an overpair into a bluff or a fish overplaying their hand.

I still like my fold tho.
 
Aces2w1n

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O RLY? You made an over pair in a 3-bet pot that's an easy fold, but you still want to get your stack in "the vast majority of the time"?

the diff is i choose when i put stacks in.... when the opponent wants to it changes things

being in position gives us extra information hes telling us we are beat
 
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