$25 NLHE 6-max: Playing QQ OOP to raise on the BTN

18 hands with the villain; he's only played 2 of his hands so far. Hasn't yet had any opportunities to steal, so I don't know much about his BTN play at all. I'm assuming he's relatively tight and passive.

I'd like to break this one down by street.

PF: What is +EV here? To call or to 3-bet?
Merge - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $27.55
CO: $44.46
BTN: $25.00 Stats: VPIP:12/ PFR: 12; 0% 3-bet (0/9 hands); 100% Fold to 3-bet (1/1 hands)
SB: $25.20
Hero (BB): $27.67

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q♠ Q♦

fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.70, fold, Hero ??

Well where are the other streets? but you 3bet this preflop, right? no reason to fold queens without a serious read on the guy and I'd rather get money in before all those A and K high flops leave you oop facing a commitment decision from a guy who would cbet all his hands anyways. Plus btn ranges, even for nits, open up enough to make 3-betting profitable(except for me ) with a lot less than QQ.

reraise and hope he shoves.

CaptainKout said:

Well where are the other streets? but you 3bet this preflop, right? no reason to fold queens without a serious read on the guy and I'd rather get money in before all those A and K high flops leave you oop facing a commitment decision from a guy who would cbet all his hands anyways. Plus btn ranges, even for nits, open up enough to make 3-betting profitable(except for me ) with a lot less than QQ.

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I should have been clearer. I would like to discuss PF play before discussing Flop play, etc. So I thought it would be easier to only reveal the action as we're discussing the street. If this is annoying, I can post more. Just wanted to keep the conversation focused.

insta 3 bet, even nits open wider than QQ on the button.

18 hands isn't enough to ascertain tendencies anyway, so we have to treat him like an unknown.

and against an unknown 3 betting is standard right?

3bet ($2.50 to $2.75) and be willing to get it in preflop.

I would 3bet to $2.25-$2.50.

Don't worry about missing out on value if he folds...it's BTN vs BB so your perceived 3betting range is wide.

Campbell92 said:

insta 3 bet, even nits open wider than QQ on the button.

18 hands isn't enough to ascertain tendencies anyway, so we have to treat him like an unknown.

and against an unknown 3 betting is standard right?

Click to expand...

Ditto

Campbell92 said:

18 hands isn't enough to ascertain tendencies anyway, so we have to treat him like an unknown.

Click to expand...

18 hands is plenty for us to glean information from his VPIP & PFR stats since they're so TAGgy. This guy clearly isn't a fish, and will probably behave like a typical TAG reg or nit since the two hands he played, he opened for a raise.

Next street:

I did 3-bet, although I guess it was too low. He calls. I'm thinking Ax or a high PP, assuming with AA or KK he would 4-bet. Logical?

Is my flop C-bet also too low (I guess I hit that 2/3-pot button automatically)?

I'm never sure about the risk of folding out worse hands. How do you guys approach this?

Finally, what is our thinking when he calls?


Merge - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $27.55
CO: $44.46
BTN: $25.00
SB: $25.20
Hero (BB): $27.67

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q♠ Q♦

fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.70, fold, Hero raises to $1.90, BTN calls $1.20

Flop: ($3.90, 2 players) 9♣ 2♥ 6♦
Hero bets $2.60, BTN calls $2.60

I'm fine with your flop line and bet size. I'm still looking to get all the money in.

I dont think we learn much on the flop, except no flush or str draws for him. A PP is still possible but he could also call with Ax here. Big kings are likely to fold the flop, so I would only be worried by an ace on the turn.

Although recently ive seen so many players flat a 3 bet with KK, its very unlikely though so bet away

c9h13no3 said:

18 hands is plenty for us to glean information from his VPIP & PFR stats since they're so TAGgy. This guy clearly isn't a fish, and will probably behave like a typical TAG reg or nit since the two hands he played, he opened for a raise.

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we know a little bit, but:

A) not enough to fold QQ pre-flop vs a BTN raise
B) not enough to not value bet a 9 high flop in a 3 bet pot.

its not plenty though, all we know is he raised all his hands.. great, that means he's read a poker book.

people on here raise all the time (well duhh) and they're still flatting 3 bets with KJs etc.. so to give this guy credit is obv bad.

I still say treat him like an unknown, he'll flat wider here since our perceived range is so wide and has loads of flop bluffs in it.

as played, ship any turn I guess, that's what I would do, and you will be surprised how often and with what people call off in these spots.

JJ and TT are obvious, but some will call with worse, A9, 88, 77, 9Ts ...

Campbell92 said:

we know a little bit, but:

B) not enough to not value bet a 9 high flop in a 3 bet pot.

Click to expand...

What? But we're still betting, right? I def expect worse hands to call here. Is this a bet to protect our hand then? Why does it matter that its a 3bet pot?

Definitely bet the flop, and try and get it in on the turn with very few exceptions. Yes we are betting to protect. The 3 bet pot means we know our opponents range is probably strong, but that we are 90% of the time ahead here and we want to make him pay to see the turn, and not catch his hand for free.

If he folds so be it, take the pot down.

I would make it 2.50 pre, but so far so good.

Turn and river play: I honestly don't remember my thinking on this hand now, but after my 2/3 pot bet on the turn (and his call), I don't know why I didn't shove the river (considering I was going to call his bet).


Merge - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $27.55
CO: $44.46
BTN: $25.00
SB: $25.20
Hero (BB): $27.67

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q♠ Q♦

fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.70, fold, Hero raises to $1.90, BTN calls $1.20

Flop: ($3.90, 2 players) 9♣ 2♥ 6♦
Hero bets $2.60, BTN calls $2.60

Turn: ($9.10, 2 players) 2♠
Hero bets $6.06, BTN calls $6.06

River: ($21.22, 2 players) 5♦
Hero checks, BTN bets $14.44 and is all-in, Hero calls $14.44

debpes said:

Turn and river play: I honestly don't remember my thinking on this hand now, but after my 2/3 pot bet on the turn (and his call), I don't know why I didn't shove the river (considering I was going to call his bet).


Merge - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $27.55
CO: $44.46
BTN: $25.00
SB: $25.20
Hero (BB): $27.67

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q♠ Q♦

fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.70, fold, Hero raises to $1.90, BTN calls $1.20

Flop: ($3.90, 2 players) 9♣ 2♥ 6♦
Hero bets $2.60, BTN calls $2.60

Turn: ($9.10, 2 players) 2♠
Hero bets $6.06, BTN calls $6.06

River: ($21.22, 2 players) 5♦
Hero checks, BTN bets $14.44 and is all-in, Hero calls $14.44

Click to expand...

i have about 30k hands at 25nl and as i saw someone say earlier, there are a lot of nits who call 3bets way too light, esp in btn v blind scenarios- esp to a 3b that small.

i feel like youre good here on the river a lot. but i feel like shipping is bad.

a lot of the time when he calls flop and turn he will have setmined 99 or 66, and 87s is probably something he flats a 3b with pre if he meets the typical nit reg type im used to seeing (which grossly makes it OTR).

on the other hand a lot of players are also able to justify calling your 3b because they have position and are sure they can outplay you post, which significantly widens their ranges and means youll get a lot of action.

as played, id block bet the river vs a nit, and check vs a laggy type, hoping he ships so i can snap it off

Like you said, shove the river.