$25 NLHE 6-max: Over Pair against an unknown

B

Boomswitch

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$25 NL HE 6-max: Over Pair against an unknown

Villain is an unknown at the time, he/she just sat down about 5 hands ago.
I feel I totally misplayed the hand but I am always a bit hesitant to overplay an over pair against an unknown.

Can I possibly call his river shove? Is my flop re-raise too small? Should I have re-raised the turn looking to make calling a river shove easier? So many questions so much to learn.

poker stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 847018
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $24.65
Hero (UTG): $47.57
CO: $16.12
BTN: $28.83
SB: $26.35

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) 3 7 8 (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3.50, BB calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.60) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

River: ($16.10) J (2 players)
BB bets $16.65 all in, Hero ???
 
W

WillySmackYoAss

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The BB is taking a stange line here. Leads out the flop, calls a raise, then leads again on the turn. It could be possible he turned up and down flush draw with 9T and completed on the river. Possibly he had JJ or J8 and got you on the river, or maybe a flopped set, it's quite hard to tell if he's got you beat or is running a bluff. Since he's unknown, I feel you should give him some kind of credit for having better than QQ, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to call to see his hand for future information. I don't have poker stove on my computer here at work, but I ran a simulation from some website and said against a random hand you're 83% to have the best hand.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Raise the flop slightly larger, put all the money in on the turn.

I'm not folding the river either.
 
LuckyChippy

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The decision point is the turn, shove or fold. For me it's a shove, he has lots of draws, 1 pair+draws and some sets in his range and 99/TT. The donk bet screams draw or weak over pair and only 1 exact draw made it on the turn. Ship it and hope it's not a set this time.
 
madtom1337

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Raise isn't terrible on the flop, I'd raise just a BIT higher to $4 - the board is pretty wet, you just want to get the money in ASAP here. Although the turn looks to complete straight draws, it doesn't really complete that many. It just means you'll get the money in good against more hands because they'll be more tempted to call on the turn. Think of 56, 67, 89. I say raise 4x again on the turn and just try to get that stack in ASAP. If he has a set here, unlucky.

The fact that he's set-mining heads up OOP with no initiative (he's just called a UTG raise from the BB) is a bit of a tell that this guy's a moron, so makes it less likely he's set-mining, if you get what I mean. Not saying it's not possible, it's definitely very possible here, but it seems he can have lots of other shit too.
 
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TorreyB

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Raising the flop IS a mistake. The texture is already a flush and straight draw. The hero should have called the $1 on the flop, and 3 bet the turn if no heart came out. If he calls or raises you, then you know to lay it down or check if he checks the river.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Raising the flop IS a mistake. The texture is already a flush and straight draw. The hero should have called the $1 on the flop, and 3 bet the turn if no heart came out. If he calls or raises you, then you know to lay it down or check if he checks the river.

Seriously? We should not raise the flop because villain probably has a draw??? So if he is drawing we want to let him get there as cheaply as possible? Solid strategy if you want to be a weak-tight nit.

Raise flop. Shove turn. As played, I cawl.
 
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TorreyB

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Seriously? We should not raise the flop because villain probably has a draw??? So if he is drawing we want to let him get there as cheaply as possible? Solid strategy if you want to be a weak-tight nit.

Raise flop. Shove turn. As played, I cawl.

That's the second post today you had a strange comment about my opinion of play. With your methods of play you'd be broke in no time. By raising the flop to protect your hand with this texture you make it even more profitable for the others to call you. Shoving on the turn is something I'd agree with too, just depends on how you think would be the best way to get the other to put more chips in.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Hard to shove the turn if we don't build the pot on the flop (and still get called by hands that we beat that is).

I play exactly the way I post and I've done ok so far. Thanks for the concern for my BR though. :)
 
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Mr Whatever

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I don’t know about u ppl, but the #1 type of hand that ive lost the most money over the yrs playing nl holdem is when I have an over pair to a flop, but my opponent has a better overpair in their hand lolol.
Ive learned to fold an overpair when some1 shoves on me like ur situation- saves me a lot in the long run.


Anyway, for that particular situation I don’t like a normal 3x bet preflop there. While it doesn’t tell anything about ur hand which is great, it doesn’t tell u anything about their hand either.

with qq id bet more preflop so u could at least have an idea of what theyre calling me down with. id agree with c9 there on a larger preflop raise , but I wouldn’t shove my money in there.

and if they fold there because of the big preflop raise - oh well then, I win the bbs and move on to the next hand.
 
madtom1337

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... Listen to WVHillBilly here... We can't expect to have 100% equity in hands before we start raising... That's just silly... And we have to charge draws and get them in if they want to get AI on the flop here... They'll be shoving thinking they have FE a lot of the time... TorreyB, your line isn't +EV, you clearly aren't very well versed in winning at poker, sorry bud...
 
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Boomswitch

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Meh folded thinking that I was totally beat . Now that I have reads and stats on villain I kick myself for not calling as he is a total fish.
 
Pascal-lf

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He looks like a fish, so raise flop raise turn get it in! :)

If possible high five yourself/a friend/the family pet while getting it in.
 
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