$25 NLHE 6-max: OOP vs Spewtard with straigh/flush draw.

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

$25 NL HE 6-max: OOP vs Spewtard with straigh/flush draw.

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 77/8/1.5

Villain spews money running 77/8/1.5, and he literally has any 2 at any time.

I 3 bet PF because the CO often raises in position to isolate. I have just started to 3 bet his button/CO raises.

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $30.50 (122 bb)
MP: $119 (476 bb)
CO: $83.25 (333 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (SB): $34 (136 bb)
BB: $31.20 (124.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A♦ J♦
UTG folds, MP calls $0.25, CO raises to $1, BTN folds, Hero raises to $3.25, BB folds, MP calls $3, CO calls $2.25

Flop: ($10) 9♥ 9♦ K♠ (3 players)
Hero bets $7.25, MP calls $7.25, CO folds

Turn: ($24.50) T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $9.25, Hero ?

Blazing_Saddler · Apr 24, 2009

The 3 bet preflop is fine, it isn't how I would have played it, but it is perfectly fine for the reason you explained. You were actually trying to re isolate the fish. I don't like over inflating a pot that will possibly end up 3 way, with a weakish hand oop. Also you are on the verge of getting deep stacked with the Cut off.

The flop bet is awful in my opinion. It is a dry board, but there are two other players to act after you. If one of them has a king your getting jammed.
Your actual position is poor, check to see what the other two do. Then you have got some free information, players will play more straight forward in 3 way pot which is getting big. You have already committed to many chips to the pot in a bad situation. Al

On the turn I think it is fold or shove. I think a call is awful. I think I would go for the fold, as some of your outs might not even be live. It sucks, but I think it is the right decision

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

Ill post this hand just to show how spewey villain Is. Villain is the same guy in both.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: $44.25 (177 bb)
BB: $95.05 (380.2 bb)
UTG: $57.60 (230.4 bb)
MP: $148.80 (595.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $45.50 (182 bb)
BTN: $17.65 (70.6 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A

K

2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.10) 4

3

8

(2 players)
BB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

Turn: ($13.10) 6

(2 players)
BB bets $3.75, Hero raises to $15, BB calls $11.25

River: ($43.10) 7

(2 players)
BB bets $24.75, Hero calls $24 and is all-in

Results: $91.10 pot ($3 rake)
BB showed 9

A

(high card Ace) and lost (-$45.50 net)
Hero showed A

K

(high card Ace) and won $88.10 ($42.60 net)

Richyl2008 · Apr 24, 2009

If this guy is giving chips away this easily, you should be able to find better spots to get his money with less variance then shipping ace high. He could have pocket 2's in both these hands for all you know and still call.As for the hand I pretty much agree with what blazing saddler has said.

Blazing_Saddler · Apr 24, 2009

Lopos said:
Ill post this hand just to show how spewey villain Is. Villain is the same guy in both.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: $44.25 (177 bb)
BB: $95.05 (380.2 bb)
UTG: $57.60 (230.4 bb)
MP: $148.80 (595.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $45.50 (182 bb)
BTN: $17.65 (70.6 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A

K

2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.10) 4

3

8

(2 players)
BB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

Turn: ($13.10) 6

(2 players)
BB bets $3.75, Hero raises to $15, BB calls $11.25

River: ($43.10) 7

(2 players)
BB bets $24.75, Hero calls $24 and is all-in

Results: $91.10 pot ($3 rake)
BB showed 9

A

(high card Ace) and lost (-$45.50 net)
Hero showed A

K

(high card Ace) and won $88.10 ($42.60 net)

I don't mean to be rude, I say this in the hope you will go away and look at your game. I wouldn't label other players spewtard's, because your play fits that bill too. The first hand was poorly played, this second one is just awful, you couldn't have played it worse if you tried.

Could have 4 bet him preflop. The call in position isn't that bad though and you are getting a bit deep stacked here.. The flop. I hate floating boards like that. It isn't the worst play in the world but I would have let it go I think. You are very deep and even if you hit an ace on the turn, you are so deep stacked it is hard to stack off here.

Then it gets real bad. You know he is a bad player, but you try and bluff him off a pot with a hand that still has some show down value. The bet is small, I think a call is fine here. A fold isn't terrible. That raise is spewy imo.

The river.

I'm sorry but no matter how bad you think a player is, you can't call a whole buy in there ace high. Did you even think what his range was, what you were actually beating ? At worst I would have said a small pocket pair, and his bet on the river smells like pocket 5s that just made a straight.

You won the pot, so well done, but no way is that play a winner in the long run.

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

Blazing_Saddler said:
I don't mean to be rude, I say this in the hope you will go away and look at your game. I wouldn't label other players spewtard's, because your play fits that bill too. The first hand was poorly played, this second one is just awful, you couldn't have played it worse if you tried.

Could have 4 bet him preflop. The call in position isn't that bad though and you are getting a bit deep stacked here.. The flop. I hate floating boards like that. It isn't the worst play in the world but I would have let it go I think. You are very deep and even if you hit an ace on the turn, you are so deep stacked it is hard to stack off here.

Then it gets real bad. You know he is a bad player, but you try and bluff him off a pot with a hand that still has some show down value. The bet is small, I think a call is fine here. A fold isn't terrible. That raise is spewy imo.

The river.

I'm sorry but no matter how bad you think a player is, you can't call a whole buy in there ace high. Did you even think what his range was, what you were actually beating ? At worst I would have said a small pocket pair, and his bet on the river smells like pocket 5s that just made a straight.

You won the pot, so well done, but no way is that play a winner in the long run.

Look at the flop/turn bet. I only made that call against that player at that time with that hand becuase of it being that player in that situation.

I would normally never stack off AK in that spot. ever.

Edit: Also, This is after about 250 hands with this guy, I felt confident my AK was good. I was running a 20/18 at the time.

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

Did you even think what his range was, what you were actually beating ?

Of course I did. First off, he rarely 3 bet. I think it was less than 2%. Anywyas, I decided to call PF in postition. Then he C-bet, and he c-bet pretty much every time he raised PF, so I decide to float him. His Turn bet was $3.75. Do you really think that he would be betting that small on such a draw heavy board with an overpair? So at this point I have him on AK, AQ, AJ, A10. I decide to raise him (mostly to just take it down there), and he pretty much snap calls me. I figured If he had any piece of that board (including draws) he is shipping the turn, like he had been doing all night.

Edit: I'm referring to the 2nd hand, not the first.

Blazing_Saddler · Apr 24, 2009

Fair enough if you had a read that good, i am sorry. It really does look spewy to look at.

I think something to think about is this, and it applies to both hands. Pot size relative to your hand strength. you dont want to build big pots with weak hands.

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

Pot size relative to your hand strength. you dont want to build big pots with weak hands.

I see your point. Pot control is definitely something I have problems with, and I think its because I use bets as strength indicators rather than a pot controlling tool. I need to adjust that and I am having a hard time.

I guess what I was getting at was, would It be better to ship the turn here with the AJ knowing I'm getting pretty much 0% fold equity; or simply call the turn and c/f river blanks?

Blazing_Saddler · Apr 24, 2009

Are we talking about the AK in the first hand ?

Just out of interest did that hand when you stacked him off with AK high happen before or after the original hand ? It is relevant. Even bad players remember hands that were played against them.

I think it is fine to float the flop, although folding isn't a huge mistake either. I would fold the turn, but his small bet is weak, so calling there is ok too. It doesn't warrant a massive raise though.

And yes check fold the river, unless he bets like $4 again, then a call is probably ok because you don't have to be right very often to make it a winning call.

Lopos · Apr 24, 2009

I was talking about the first hand (AdJd) when I was thinking about shipping the turn with almost 0 fold equity.
and the AK hand was after the AJ hand.

Blazing_Saddler · Apr 24, 2009

Lopos said:
I was talking about the first hand (AdJd) when I was thinking about shipping the turn with almost 0 fold equity.
and the AK hand was after the AJ hand.

I think the best line here is to check the flop and see what happens. Calling one bet isn't to bad, but you are out of position so check folding the flop isn't awful

As played I'm really not sure. I stacked off on a straight flush draw earlier today. That was on the flop I just check raised him all in. It's a tough one. I think if you are going to play it the chips have got to go in on the turn, because you wont have enough left behind on the river to fold if you miss.

I'll leave it to some of the maths experts. It certainly is a tough one, there is enough dead money in the pot to make shoving ok, but as you say there is no fold equity.

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$25 NLHE 6-max: OOP vs Spewtard with straigh/flush draw.

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