$25 NLHE 6-max: Just Badbeat?

Romario2223

Romario2223

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pokerstars Zoom Hand #157999507391: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2016/09/01 3:23:47 MSK [2016/08/31 20:23:47 ET]
Table 'Whirlpool' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kidcanuck555 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 2: Romario2223 ($26.11 in chips)
Seat 3: akiramsr ($44.58 in chips)
Seat 4: shutgunagain ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: VoneRT ($25.35 in chips)
Seat 6: faflarage13 ($72.27 in chips)
Seat 7: samdrone ($20.84 in chips)
Seat 8: Shevcuk ($27.35 in chips)
Seat 9: Bid's In ($24.65 in chips)
Romario2223: posts small blind $0.10
akiramsr: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Romario2223 [Ah] [Ac]
shutgunagain: folds
VoneRT: folds
faflarage13: raises $0.25 to $0.50
samdrone: raises $5.25 to $5.75
Shevcuk: folds
Bid's In: folds
kidcanuck555: folds
Romario2223: raises $20.36 to $26.11 and is all-in
akiramsr: folds
faflarage13: folds
samdrone: calls $15.09 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($5.27) returned to Romario2223
*** FLOP *** [9c] [8c] [Qc]
*** TURN *** [9c] [8c] [Qc] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [9c] [8c] [Qc] [Kd] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Romario2223: shows [Ah Ac] (a pair of Aces)
samdrone: shows [Qh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
samdrone collected $40.52 from pot
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Never post a hand where you get it in preflop with AA again. It is obviously never wrong.
 
D Laskovas

D Laskovas

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PokerStars Zoom Hand #157999507391: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2016/09/01 3:23:47 MSK [2016/08/31 20:23:47 ET]
Table 'Whirlpool' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kidcanuck555 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 2: Romario2223 ($26.11 in chips)
Seat 3: akiramsr ($44.58 in chips)
Seat 4: shutgunagain ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: VoneRT ($25.35 in chips)
Seat 6: faflarage13 ($72.27 in chips)
Seat 7: samdrone ($20.84 in chips)
Seat 8: Shevcuk ($27.35 in chips)
Seat 9: Bid's In ($24.65 in chips)
Romario2223: posts small blind $0.10
akiramsr: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Romario2223 <font color='red'>A♥</font> <font color='black'>A♣</font>
shutgunagain: folds
VoneRT: folds
faflarage13: raises $0.25 to $0.50
samdrone: raises $5.25 to $5.75
Shevcuk: folds
Bid's In: folds
kidcanuck555: folds
Romario2223: raises $20.36 to $26.11 and is all-in
akiramsr: folds
faflarage13: folds
samdrone: calls $15.09 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($5.27) returned to Romario2223
*** FLOP *** <font color='black'>9♣</font> <font color='black'>8♣</font> <font color='black'>Q♣</font>
*** TURN *** <font color='black'>9♣</font> <font color='black'>8♣</font> <font color='black'>Q♣</font> <font color='red'>K<font face="arial">♦</font></font>
*** RIVER *** <font color='black'>9♣</font> <font color='black'>8♣</font> <font color='black'>Q♣</font> <font color='red'>K<font face="arial">♦</font></font> [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Romario2223: shows [Ah Ac] (a pair of Aces)
samdrone: shows [Qh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
samdrone collected $40.52 from pot

i miss something there, what was samdrone hand?
 
Samuel Lee

Samuel Lee

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You played the best out of those Aces. Just a badbead.. that's all
 
C

ChrisMurray

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25NL AA hand review

I'd like to preface my comment by saying that it's not always the optimal play to get aces in pre-flop (some situations merit a slow-play). It is a bit of straight-forward hand to be posting in the forums though, so I do agree with the above commenters.

Pre-flop: When the initial raised (MP1) comes in for a 2x raise, it doesn't look particularly strong. We'll give him a range of 77+, AJo+ A7s+, KJo+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs.
Now, the re-raiser (MP2) immediately stands out as a recreational player, with limited skill. The clues are his smaller stack size (he doesn't have auto-rebuy on), and the absurdly large 3-bet he makes here (11x). This leads me to think he probably has a tight, but not necessarily premium range. We'll go with JJ+, AQ+, KQ. These sorts of big cards appeal to bad players, and they don't know how badly a hand like AQ does when all-in for 100BB. It's clear with this huge 3-bet, MP2 is almost never folding to a shove.
I think this makes this a pretty obvious 4-bet shove, as you have done. I expect MP1 to fold a huge amount of the time and I expect MP2 to call with his entire range most of the time (sometimes he might get away from a hand like KQ).

This is just a bad beat.
 
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jsh169

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No hand is 100% to win preflop. Like others have said no point to post.
 
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ChrisMurray

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If you have your aces in preflop then you are optimal.

I'm afraid it's not that simple all of the time (although it is in this case). I mean optimal, as in the most +EV play you can make. Sometimes, calling a 3-bet, or 4-bet with AA can be better than shoving.

A good example would be if we're against a loose and aggressive player, we might want to flat because we'll be able to extract more chips out of him post-flop than simply by shoving, which limits the range of hands he can call.

Another example would be if we're in a multi-way pot against a weak player and a 3-bettor. We would want to flat to convince the weak player to join in the pot.

Just because you know the best hand, doesn't mean we should be looking to make an aggressive move with it in every situation (although you're right in that we will want to most of the time), because we want to work out how to get the most value out of our opponents. See what I mean?
 
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seventhsense

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I'm afraid it's not that simple all of the time (although it is in this case). I mean optimal, as in the most +EV play you can make. Sometimes, calling a 3-bet, or 4-bet with AA can be better than shoving.

A good example would be if we're against a loose and aggressive player, we might want to flat because we'll be able to extract more chips out of him post-flop than simply by shoving, which limits the range of hands he can call.

Another example would be if we're in a multi-way pot against a weak player and a 3-bettor. We would want to flat to convince the weak player to join in the pot.

Just because you know the best hand, doesn't mean we should be looking to make an aggressive move with it in every situation (although you're right in that we will want to most of the time), because we want to work out how to get the most value out of our opponents. See what I mean?

We're in HA where almost every player plays at the micros and is learning the game.

I would not recommend slow playing aces almost ever at this level. When the time comes that it is a useful play, they should be more than competent enough to understand why that is the case.
 
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ChrisMurray

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We're in HA where almost every player plays at the micros and is learning the game.

I would not recommend slow playing aces almost ever at this level. When the time comes that it is a useful play, they should be more than competent enough to understand why that is the case.

That is a good point! I think at 25NL, to keep up good win-rates, you have to start putting some more sophisticated plays in to your game though, don't you think?

I think you're totally right though, at 10NL and below, we should usually just play it fast unless there's a particular situation where calling is clearly going to be better.
 
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seventhsense

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That is a good point! I think at 25NL, to keep up good win-rates, you have to start putting some more sophisticated plays in to your game though, don't you think?

I think you're totally right though, at 10NL and below, we should usually just play it fast unless there's a particular situation where calling is clearly going to be better.

Yeah that's probably the first limit it is useful. The first level where regs are semi-decent.
 
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nicolas jesus

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I had not understood until I reread hand. Kq suit villain made a reraise to open from 0.50 to 5 dollars hehe.
And you put it all in for his big pre flop play.
Bad luck, I'll pay with that hand and you hit a bad beat, things happen.
 
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