$25 NLHE 6-max: JJ - Am I crazy to have wanted to get it all in here?

Was it ok to push here?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 110 BB (VPIP: 28.74, PFR: 22.99, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, hands: 90)
SB: 182.12 BB (VPIP: 12.24, PFR: 12.24, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 51)
Hero (BB): 149.44 BB
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 40.54, PFR: 35.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J♦ J♣

fold, BTN raises to 2.48 BB, SB raises to 8.4 BB, Hero calls 7.4 BB, fold

Flop: (19.28 BB, 2 players) 9♥ 3♥ 8♦
SB bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 25 BB, SB raises to 63.48 BB, Hero raises to 141.04 BB and is all-in, SB calls 77.56 BB

Turn: (301.36 BB, 2 players) 5♣

River: (301.36 BB, 2 players) T♥

I think you can some times. SB seems to be playing pretty tight for a four-way table, nothing here really fits his range unless he wanted to pop it with 9Ts. I dont think he would be this wild on the flop with KK, QQ or AA. If he wants to get it in on the flop on AKh, you are a 45% dog, but still only have to avoid big cards and hearts (and if two or more hearts have been folded, u r now ahead). He could have something like A8h, Ah9d. You are flipping with A8h, and a 75% fav. over Ah9d. I dont think this would be how i play TPTK on a 9 high board, but it isn't how i would play a flush fraw, either. I am sort of confused by his plays on the flop, this is a bit wild in my opinion. Maybe try to make your flop bet a bit bigger, in this spot i think you're going for value, and 1/3 pot seems a bit small. 2/3 should do the job, also giving worse odds to draw with 2 hearts or TJ.

Awesome. Thanks, it was a weird hand that's for sure...

I'm going to shove in this spot 80%

Weird indeed. It is really just going to come down to variance, he hits a heart or an ace or you win. I agree with jooseme, and if we have the Jh i think it is probably close to 100%. (Gives extra equity against baby flush draws like 6h7h, and prevents an awful situation where you make a set and his flush gets there lol) Also, now you know how this villain plays the nut draw on a raggedy board. You lost the money, but gained a lot of info.

4 handed, and for that sizing, you should be 4-betting pre a large % of the time. Surprised button folded w/ nearly any hand he opens there.

As played, if you're stacking off vs. a tight opponent for 150bbs w/ JJ, that's going to be a losing play long term here. I didn't look at results but I'm assuming your opponent has 2 pair+ or pair + draw.


Your biggest mistake was not 4-betting pre here 4-handed.

John A said:

4 handed, and for that sizing, you should be 4-betting pre a large % of the time. Surprised button folded w/ nearly any hand he opens there.

As played, if you're stacking off vs. a tight opponent for 150bbs w/ JJ, that's going to be a losing play long term here. I didn't look at results but I'm assuming your opponent has 2 pair+ or pair + draw.


Your biggest mistake was not 4-betting pre here 4-handed.

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That was what I thought at first look. By flatting your JJ's, you were inviting the Btn to come along. With a 4-bet, it might have forced V. to re-think his flop spaz?? I am still and always be learning this game, thanks for posting this hand

[COLOR=#595F68 said:

Originally Posted by [/COLOR]John A
4 handed, and for that sizing, you should be 4-betting pre a large % of the time. Surprised button folded w/ nearly any hand he opens there.

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How can Hero not 4-bet preflop? (forgetting the way the hand played out). What will a tight (although 50 hands is too few to believe) Villain 5-bet with? AA, KK, QQ, AK? What will Villain call with? ATs? QQ, JJ, TT? What will Villain fold? Everything else.

The other problem with calling was observed before, Button is getting odds to call with his big cards. It is likely an error that he folded pre. When the flop comes with an ace or a king or even a queen (as it will 2/3s of the time) and SB bets it what can Hero do but fold?

As played Hero dodged the bullet on the flop, but what is Villain's range with 5% 3-Bet? 88+, ATs, AK. As played Villain's A4s is the very bottom of an 8% range.

Villain's 1/3 pot flop CB looks like like she is trying to walk the dog (as played she is trying to get show down). Hero is a small favorite on the flop.against Villain's range and is afraid to give Villain a free card fearing an Ace, king or queen or heart on the flop. A tough spot Hero should not have to face. As played I'd re-raise, but fold to the 3-bet. It would be weak against Villain's actual hand but correct against her 4-bet range, QQ+ 99 and flush draws (18 high pairs, 3 nines and 10 flush draws). Hero is a 35/65 dog.

BTW if Villain 5-bets pre, I'd fold, losing 28 BBs. A fold on the flop to Villain's 3-bet loses 33 BBs. Better to decide pre.

I agree with everybody saying that this should be a 4bet preflop, its very hard to have a balanced flatting range here and not good reason at all to even try it. But one thing i do not understand is why did we remove QQ-AA from Villain? this is an insane assumption with no real basis. he can still have all of these hands. I dont think you making money from this play

It's a 4bet/fold though correct ?.Especially vs the sb playing 12/12.

Yeah agree with the 4 bet theory here.

Given how the hand played out though, I'm jamming here too. On the flop there's so many Axh, 8xh XXh (not sure how silly SB is getting though) and far fewer combos of hands (QQ+, sets and the only two pair Villain could have of 89)

To me it would seem he's jamming many more drawing hands than value hands here.

I think the villain re-raising with A4 and going all-in with a draw shows that you can't trust those stats with only 51 hands.

Yoda_Priest_X_Napo said:

I agree with everybody saying that this should be a 4bet preflop, its very hard to have a balanced flatting range here and not good reason at all to even try it. But one thing i do not understand is why did we remove QQ-AA from Villain? this is an insane assumption with no real basis. he can still have all of these hands. I dont think you making money from this play

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So I removed QQ-AA from his range because of his initial flop bet sizing. It was too low to represent QQ-AA and gave any drawing hands GREAT pot odds to continue. That's when I put him on the draw, and removed hands like 89 and sets. If villain had 2 pair, sets or QQ-AA... I would have expected a bet denying odds for straights and flushes to draw.

Which is exactly why the shove seemed good in the moment because I thought I had pretty good fold equity there.

I do agree with the majority calling for a 4 bet preflop. I think my reasoning for calling was based on his tight stats, and an uncharacteristic 3 bet. I was thinking QQ-AA, AKs and the implied odds of maybe flopping a set against a premium hand.

I’d imagine blind vs btn that V’s 3B % might be slightly higher but not too high considerably V is shaping up to be a real nit. So calling the 3B is best.

On the flop the SPR is 6+ so the times we manage to gii here with JJ ahead is limited. V has range advantage but the urgency for value is fairly high considering the dynamic nature of the flop. The very bottom of V’s range to gii here is a nutty flush semi bluff. Which still has a very decent equity share of the pot vs our hand.

The flop CB is an odd weak size. But I’d only raise if I was comfortable stacking off. We don’t have any info to say whether this is a V that does this with overpairs, draws or air. Considering the SPR managing to raise and be called by 50%+ worse hands is tough. So I’d call.

Two good notes here though. It looks as though V has a light 3B range bb vs btn and Cbets oddly small/buys cards with draws.

I would have played this totally differently... (haven't seen spoiler)

I'll just say I don't think the flat pre is all that bad (4bet is preferred), but I don't like the flop raise war. Your initial raise there should either be to:
1) get him off a standard Ax 3bet hand
2) get him off a draw
3) get value from a mid-small pair.

I'm not sure what your goal was? Yes, his c-bet is small, but we don't know enough about him to exclude overpairs (I, myself, will c-bet small with a monster just to keep my range balanced). Therefore, all overpairs are still in play imo. When he puts in that flop 3bet, we are certainly in a -EV spot against what looks like a tight player.