$25 NLHE 6-max: Can I call here?

cardriverx

cardriverx

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Full Tilt - $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Full Tilt Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $12.56
BB: $18.78
UTG: $6.67
MP: $41.04
CO Hero: $39.57
BTN: $25.52

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO and dealt :9h4: :9c4:
UTG raises to $6.67 (All-in), MP folds, Hero ??
 
Sysvr4

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Barring some meta-game scenario that clearly indicates this guy is drunk and shoving every hand: No.
 
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orangepeeleo

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He's got 3 players left to act after him, i don't think its a 'snap' call at all.

Kinda depends on how the guys who are left to act have been playing, and how you've been playing too i guess.
 
bgomez89

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He's got 3 players left to act after him, i don't think its a 'snap' call at all.

Kinda depends on how the guys who are left to act have been playing, and how you've been playing too i guess.

2 of which are the blinds who are probably going to just fold. If someone 3bets, we're probably beat. Calling here looks strong and if we raise we only get called/shoved over by better. Folding seems dumb
 
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orangepeeleo

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I dont think calling looks strong, if you had AA/KK/QQ you would really wanna make sure its HU against the shortie right??

Folding is dumb, but i thought the issue was what to do about the guys left to act as imo its not as simple as just snapping it off with the poss of 1/3 guys left to act 3bet shoving, and one of those 3 having a half stack themselves, so saying the blinds are probs gonna fold is overlooking the fish who could shove with 50bbs wide as shit.

Would it be a snap call if the half stack guy shoves?? Because surely its entirely poss that you'll end up having to call off 50bbs with a pair of 99's multiway here.

If your asking if 99 is good enough to call a 25bb shove then I think it is, but I wouldn't be happy about doing it b/c of the poss, however small, that 1 of the 3 left to act either wakes up with a hand and comes over the top, or the half stack guy shoves Ax/Axs/55+/Any two broadway and we have to call off half a stack multiway.....but i'm probs being a nit :)
 
Stick66

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Full Tilt - $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Full Tilt Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $12.56
BB: $18.78
UTG: $6.67
MP: $41.04
CO Hero: $39.57
BTN: $25.52

Pre-flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO and dealt :9h4: :9c4:
UTG raises to $6.67 (All-in), MP folds, Hero ??
I think it depends on YOUR image.

If the other players see you as tight, a 3-bet of about $15-$18 should suffice. That should scare away any AQ type hands from calling when you show your strength and make calling pricey. But if someone 4-bet shoves behind, then you know they got the goods.

If you are seen as loose, then you have to measure how bad you wanna go HU with the shorty based on your read. If you want it bad enough, you gotta shove to price out any gamblers. If you don't wanna go HU with him, then you could try to build a pot with a flat call. But I'd only flat call if you knew that others would just flat, also. Then it turns into set-mining and you can get away from a flop if an A or K hits.
 
ChuckTs

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If the other players see you as tight, a 3-bet of about $15-$18 should suffice. That should scare away any AQ type hands from calling when you show your strength and make calling pricey. But if someone 4-bet shoves behind, then you know they got the goods.

So 3bet to %60-%70 of our stack then fold to a cold shove?

We'd be getting at worst (25.52+15+6.67+.25+.1) : (25.52-15) = 47.54:10.52 = ~4.5:1.

If we know he has AA we have to call. (%19 equity which is a ~4:1 dog)

Even if we get shoved on by all 3 btn/sb/bb, with ranges of like KK/AA/AA, we're getting plenty odds to call.
 
bgomez89

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I dont think calling looks strong, if you had AA/KK/QQ you would really wanna make sure its HU against the shortie right??

No not really, tbh I'd probably just flat with QQ+ in this spot too because it invites others to come along while i'm ahead and thus getting more value out of my hand
 
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Marginal

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Meh, just iso shove.
 
Stick66

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I think it depends on YOUR image.

If the other players see you as tight, a 3-bet of about $15-$18 should suffice. That should scare away any AQ type hands from calling when you show your strength and make calling pricey. But if someone 4-bet shoves behind, then you know they got the goods.

So 3bet to %60-%70 of our stack then fold to a cold shove?

We'd be getting at worst (25.52+15+6.67+.25+.1) : (25.52-15) = 47.54:10.52 = ~4.5:1.

If we know he has AA we have to call. (%19 equity which is a ~4:1 dog)

Even if we get shoved on by all 3 btn/sb/bb, with ranges of like KK/AA/AA, we're getting plenty odds to call.
A) Where did I say "fold"? Of course, he'd be priced in. I was just saying that he'd know what they had.

B) $15 is 37.9% of $39.57
$18 is 45.5% of $39.57
 
ChuckTs

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A) You didn't use the word 'fold', but you implied it here:

But if someone 4-bet shoves behind, then you know they got the goods.

B) Effective stacks, sir. Our $40 stack is actually no larger than a $25 stack when the people behind us have ~$25, $19 and $13 effective.

$15 is ~%60 of $25.52.
$18 is ~%70 of $25.52.
 
Stick66

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A) You didn't use the word 'fold', but you implied it here:



B) Effective stacks, sir. Our $40 stack is actually no larger than a $25 stack when the people behind us have ~$25, $19 and $13 effective.

$15 is ~%60 of $25.52.
$18 is ~%70 of $25.52.
I know what I said and I know what I meant. I never said "fold" and wasn't implying it. Why so aggro with this after I clarified what I meant?
 
ChuckTs

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Aright, whatever. Not being aggro, just clarifying why I think you were implying a fold after the 3bet.

That said, do you see why 3betting to that size doesn't show any purpose, or rather doesn't show any advantage over just shoving? Unless the villains behind us have some bass-akwards thinking (which could obv be the case), I don't see how a %100 committing 3bet could look weaker than a 3bet shove, but who knows. Since we're calling a cold shove, why not just shove ourselves to gain more FE?
 
Stick66

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Aright, whatever. Not being aggro, just clarifying why I think you were implying a fold after the 3bet.

That said, do you see why 3betting to that size doesn't show any purpose, or rather doesn't show any advantage over just shoving? Unless the villains behind us have some bass-akwards thinking (which could obv be the case), I don't see how a %100 committing 3bet could look weaker than a 3bet shove, but who knows. Since we're calling a cold shove, why not just shove ourselves to gain more FE?
Fair enough. I was just looking to show strength with a tight image, so a shove will do the same thing. I guess I was getting too cute by 3betting and calling the shove anyway.

How about flatting and treating it as a set-mine? He's got decent postflop position to do it. On the fly against the timer, I could see myself playing it this way. But I'm not sure if the postflop pot and stacks of any other callers would make it correct.
 
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badaboombaa

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Pretty easy call, pretty sure I don't have a 3b range here with ATC. Just figure you're putting more money into a dead side pot I guess you might fold out TT/JJ or something so there's some merit but I think in general flat's just gonna be way better.
 
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