$25 NLHE 6-max: Folded QQ to 3-bet pre-flop

madtom1337

madtom1337

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$25 NL HE 6-max: Folded QQ to 3-bet pre-flop

So I had 62 hands on this guy, he was 11/10 with 4% 3-betting...

At that particular table so far I'd played 18 hands, and, for those 18 hands, I was at 28/28 with 100% FT3B...

So here's the hand:

full tilt poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 760355
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $25.70
UTG: $27.01
Hero (MP): $25.00
CO: $25.00
BTN: $25.50
SB: $25.01

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP with Q
heart.gif
Q
spade.gif

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero requests TIME, 1 fold

Did I do right? :D I'm guessing it's pretty marginal...
 
JimmyBrizzy

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4% 3bet has no significance over 62 hands.
 
T

The Spillage

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I think you're looking to 4-bet this. As Likminutz says, villain's 3-bet% is meaningless. You have to assume he's gonna 3-bet more lightly OOP from the blinds. He might be on 77+ AJs+ I think you've got to assume you're ahead of his range in this spot.
 
madtom1337

madtom1337

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What made me fold:

I was UTG+1, he seemed pretty tight, 3B% aside, his VPIP/PFR (11/10) is tight as hell

I figured there were only a couple hands I could be way ahead of (TT, JJ), and against AK, AQs I wouldn't have been way ahead and wouldn't really have been able to stack him off with QQ unless I hit a Q and he also hit.

So it seemed I was either ahead and going to win a smallish pot, or I could be way behind and stand to lose a massive pot/my stack.

Still should've 4-bet?? Any arguments for a call? If I'm 4-betting and get re-raised, is it time to fold?
 
madtom1337

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@c9h13no3

Yeah but, my point is, what's 2% more pot equity when your wins are usually going to be small and your losses are going to be big? Gonna get stacked by KK/AA, and AK/TT/JJ will fold to 4-bet... If I just call, I'm gonna lose big pots to KK/AA, and win smallish ones against everything else... Oh and lose small-ish ones against AK if an A or a K shows up on the flop...

So, that's sort of why I folded? Am I still wrong?
 
S

Skaplun

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4% range: AA combos- 6, Kk combos- 6, AKs- 4combos, AKo combos- 12, JJ combos-6, TT combos - 6, Aqs - 2, Aqo- 6.
you are losing to 12 combos, 54-46 with 16 combos, and 80-20 with 20.
if you 4bet, you will make a lot of those drop and you are left with AA, KK, AKs, AKos
so that means 12 combos you are losing to 80-20, and 16 combos you are beating 54-46.
flat call.
 
WVHillbilly

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4% range: AA combos- 6, Kk combos- 6, AKs- 4combos, AKo combos- 12, JJ combos-6, TT combos - 6, Aqs - 2, Aqo- 6.
you are losing to 12 combos, 54-46 with 16 combos, and 80-20 with 20.
if you 4bet, you will make a lot of those drop and you are left with AA, KK, AKs, AKos
so that means 12 combos you are losing to 80-20, and 16 combos you are beating 54-46.
flat call.

Why would you assume he 3bet/folds JJ?
 
KardKlub

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This is how i see it

the only real stats you need on a player is his vip/ pfr. The rest you can figure out without the stats with just thoses 2.

Now as you say he seems super tight which means he must know some poker theory, so he must know to play super tight in the SB.

He also must know that the raise came from early ish position so you must be holding something decent.

Now the real question is do you want to play poker or not? Are you comfortable to fold what would be the top of most peoples range against what you know from the information you have gathered?

You can 4 bet fold you know. Stuff pot odds if he puts you all in, it's not mandatory to call if you now feel 99% that your beat.

You can also call with position and see where he goes from there. Use your read to make the desicions throughout the hand.
 
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Skaplun

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Why would you assume he 3bet/folds JJ?

Rarely in the miles down full stack tags stack off with jj, just doesn't happen often enough to realistically add it to villains call 4bet/or shove over committed villain range.
 
c9h13no3

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AK/TT/JJ will fold to 4-bet...
Lol, what?

Also, keep in mind, that when they fold, you can win 16 big blinds. So the edge might only be 2%, but because there's some money in the pot, we don't even need to have 50% equity when we're called to make this profitable.

This spot is solved, btw. Open up hold'em manager, and they'll just tell you the 3-bet percentages that you need to be up against in order to 4-bet/call profitably (in the plugging leaks "Facing a preflop 3-bet" article). And if you always 4-bet AKs, QQ+, you wouldn't be far wrong at all.

Calling here is pretty bad.
 
madtom1337

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So what if I 4-bet and he shoved all in? Should I be willing to stack off? Not 4-bet -> fold, right?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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So what if I 4-bet and he shoved all in? Should I be willing to stack off? Not 4-bet -> fold, right?
Open up hold'em manager, and they'll just tell you the 3-bet percentages that you need to be up against in order to 4-bet/call profitably (in the plugging leaks "Facing a preflop 3-bet" article).
...
 
Weregoat

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I really don't like folding here. Think about the standard player's 2-bet range, it's pretty wide, right? Especially at 6-max, suited connectors, suited aces, broadway combos, just about any pocket pair, etc. Now, think about a standard player's 3-bet range, some suited broadway aces, bigger pocket pairs, some offsuit big broadway aces. We're behind to AA and KK only, his range includes far more than AA and KK. If you only play the villain's stats, and in this case not even a deep sample, then you run the risk of not getting enough money.

Personally, I like four-betting here, our four-bet range should be very narrow, QQ+, AKs and will let villain know we're serious. If he has a hand that holds up against our range, he will let us know.

Hell, you don't even have to four-bet big, you can disguise it as a value bet, trying to build the pot as much as you can. What's the worst case scenario? He goes all-in and we fold? It's better than folding against his very wide range, most of which we're beating.

If he was holding AA or KK, which I doubt he was, you definitely lost the least amount of money possible.
 
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Warteen

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I don't like a fold. As others have said, the number of hands you have on him isn't yet significant.
 
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salex77

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You have to fourbet

I don't like a fold here at all! As mentioned before you only losing to AA,KK 12 combinations and then possibly more likely ak,aks, aqs , aq if the ace comes in the latter case. You can't based your play here on stats you have to play this especially at a 6 handed table!
 
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wetyeti

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Im kinda nitty when I dont have much info on my opponent but Im always 4betting this.
Hang on and I'll read the replies...... Ok, I dont have anything new here, other than another cocktail:p
62 hands worth of stats are NEVER as strong as QQ
 
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