$25 NLHE 6-max: Flush and TPTK semi-bluff

Picatrix

Picatrix

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
93
Chips
0
Blinds post, UTG folds, MP raises to .75c, Hero raises to 1.50 with AcJc, Button, SB and BB all fold, MP calls.

Flop comes TcJh4c.

Villain checks, Hero bets 2.17, Villain calls.

Turn comes 7s.

Villain checks. Hero bets 8.94. Villain calls.

River comes Kd. Villain checks. Hero checks.

What do you guys think about this? Do not ask me for any stats. This was Zoom Poker and I had none except my own.
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
3bet bigger -3x
otherthan that looks fine
 
C

cashnetusa

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Total posts
7
Chips
0
good saftey check.................
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Why are we 3-betting an UTG+1 open with AJs? Especially a goofy size? We hoping to get called by AT? KJ? Spewy bro.
 
Picatrix

Picatrix

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
93
Chips
0
Why are we 3-betting an UTG+1 open with AJs? Especially a goofy size? We hoping to get called by AT? KJ? Spewy bro.

Because I don't tend to give most people who open on $25 NL with a basic 3xBB raise AA , QQ, KK often enough to fold AJs enough of the time. If he 4bets me then I'd have folded. AJs is way too playable of a hand to just fold it, especially IP. Not sure if you're recommending I only 3bet UTG opens with top overpairs, if you are that's a bit too nitty for me.

Admit I may have messed up on the 3bet, could use some fine tuning there.
 
W

wrapper

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Total posts
31
Chips
0
I think I would have played pretty similarly, except for the odd-sized raise preflop. If I 3-bet there (it's a spot I'd sometimes flat call with a good suited ace to change things up, but at zoom poker it doesn't matter), my usual 3-bet six-handed is going to be around 8-10BB, not a smidge over a min raise. I'd make it $2.25 or $2.50 if I'm raising here.

Flop bet is good. Turn bet is okay, I probably would have gone a little lighter, around $7, but that's just me. I'd bet about $7 if I had a set, so I'm going to bet $7 with TPTK or a semibluff as well.

On occasion I might fire another barrel on the river, but not here. It just smells like KQ (or KJ? AK?) got there on the river.
 
Picatrix

Picatrix

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
93
Chips
0
I think I would have played pretty similarly, except for the odd-sized raise preflop. If I 3-bet there (it's a spot I'd sometimes flat call with a good suited ace to change things up, but at zoom poker it doesn't matter), my usual 3-bet six-handed is going to be around 8-10BB, not a smidge over a min raise. I'd make it $2.25 or $2.50 if I'm raising here.

Flop bet is good. Turn bet is okay, I probably would have gone a little lighter, around $7, but that's just me. I'd bet about $7 if I had a set, so I'm going to bet $7 with TPTK or a semibluff as well.

On occasion I might fire another barrel on the river, but not here. It just smells like KQ (or KJ? AK?) got there on the river.
Funny thing, he had no Kings. That is why I slowed down on the river, or I was thinking maybe he had a set he was slowplaying and the only reason he didn't bet river is cuz he saw I was betting like a ****er. But then I feel like he'd have raised me on the turn instead of continuing to call. So I honestly had no idea what he had but I didn't feel like the Jacks were enough to justify a shove there.

I don't think I would have been able to see 89s before he showed it. I don't think a lot of people would've opened with that from MP either. So I'm fine losing to that straight, I just wanted to see what people thought of the hand otherwise.
 
W

wrapper

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Total posts
31
Chips
0
Ah, that makes sense too. I myself have raised UTG six-handed with a middle suited connector, especially deep in tournaments, but not often, and probably never at zoom poker. If I did, and you three-bet (especially to 8-10 BBs), I probably fold.

+1 for a good river check and resisting the urge to shove.
 
Hujiko

Hujiko

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Total posts
332
Awards
1
Chips
36
Here my two cents.

3 Bet bigger now almost nothing will fold unless you do it to increase the pot and play AJs in position. 6 handed people tend to play wide from UTG like ~ 20% VIP some even more as UTG gets to much respect.

Flop I am fine with that bet good sizing.
Would not over bet pot on the turn, what will not fold to a 2/3 pot bet that will fold to an over bet ?
River nice check.
 
M

micromoi

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Total posts
502
Chips
0
i do like the 3bet there u have control u have position, the cbet is good too u did flop big there i would have checked the turn to pot control and with the K on the river would have checked too just like u. but still it was well played for me.
 
Picatrix

Picatrix

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
93
Chips
0
i do like the 3bet there u have control u have position, the cbet is good too u did flop big there i would have checked the turn to pot control and with the K on the river would have checked too just like u. but still it was well played for me.

Here my two cents.

3 Bet bigger now almost nothing will fold unless you do it to increase the pot and play AJs in position. 6 handed people tend to play wide from UTG like ~ 20% VIP some even more as UTG gets to much respect.

Flop I am fine with that bet good sizing.
Would not over bet pot on the turn, what will not fold to a 2/3 pot bet that will fold to an over bet ?
River nice check.

Ah, that makes sense too. I myself have raised UTG six-handed with a middle suited connector, especially deep in tournaments, but not often, and probably never at zoom poker. If I did, and you three-bet (especially to 8-10 BBs), I probably fold.

+1 for a good river check and resisting the urge to shove.

Thanks guys!
 
TheBigFinn

TheBigFinn

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Total posts
586
Awards
2
Chips
0
Stacks and pot sizes help to determine bet sizes. I don't understand the min raise pre. I'd either bet more or check. I'd guess Aj is racing with an EP opener in 6-handed zoom, so why is Hero betting? Do you want Villain to fold? Bet more. Do you want to build more pressure? Bet more. Do you want to see the flop? Check.

As played Hero has a classic continuation bet. AA, KK, & maybe QQ 4-bet in 6-handed Zoom. Hero is only losing to TT & 44. With a 3.75 pot the 2.17 size works.

The pot is $8.09 )as I count it) and the turn card looks like a blank. No flush, but Hero is now losing to 89. TPTK is not a 3 street beating hand, IMHO, Hero needs to decide whether to bet the turn or the river. I like a turn bet, but $8.94.looks large to me. Why so big? Hero is charging flush and straight draws and a smaller beat works for that.

As played, when Villain calls the turn, Hero is glad to check back the river.

 
Misaki

Misaki

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Total posts
795
Awards
6
Chips
1
I'm curious how do you guys construct your ranges, because it's mostly call than 3bet. The idea is that if we call PPs there like TT-77 then we have to have also some calling ranges with some broadaways cards. If we would call only PPs then we would overfold to cbet there. We would be easy to exploit. If we 3bet AJs so what do we call? What strong Ax we call there? what we do most of the time on boards like Axx? fold every turn vs barrel because we don't have any hand which can stand barreling? You 3bet it pre and what do you do on Axx? what worse hands calls you twice, triple on Axx board? same goes on Jxx boards. How many worse Jx villain has here? KJs, QJs? Sometimes people fold even QJs if they are thinking players because without information you have no idea what to do most of the time on boards Qxx, Jxx because you can be easily dominated and your calls can be even -EV. so it's like 3-6 worse combinations of hands which we dominate. So what we can count best is flipping vs some PPs which are still a little ahead vs our range and worst option is just folding AJs vs a 4bet from hands like worse Ax combinations.

so call > 3bet. (won't talk about bet sizing because people already mentioned it)
flop ok but I would prefer something around 1/2 I guess. Turn bet size too much. Don't get it. If you decided to 3bet it I would go for 1/2, 1/2, check river (even on total blank)
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Misaki: "I'm curious how do you guys construct your ranges, because it's mostly call than 3bet."

Typically a call for me. We don't 3bet for value but for bluff with AJs, but it's quite close, against some maybe the bluff is better line?
 
Misaki

Misaki

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Total posts
795
Awards
6
Chips
1
Misaki: "I'm curious how do you guys construct your ranges, because it's mostly call than 3bet."

Typically a call for me. We don't 3bet for value but for bluff with AJs, but it's quite close, against some maybe the bluff is better line?

this hand is too good for a 3bet bluff. I would never consider it as 3bet bluff. You can 3bet bluff there hands like weak aces, some SCs from time to time or some weakest suited broadways like QTs.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
this hand is too good for a 3bet bluff. I would never consider it as 3bet bluff. You can 3bet bluff there hands like weak aces, some SCs from time to time or some weakest suited broadways like QTs.

How about something like 12/10 UTG? AJo is quit often in 3bet bluff range against utg tag.
 
Misaki

Misaki

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Total posts
795
Awards
6
Chips
1
How about something like 12/10 UTG? AJo is quit often in 3bet bluff range against utg.

but it's a spot CO vs MP in 6 max game and hero posted a AJs, not AJo.

but if you would like to know my opinion about vs utg range when we are on CO then AJo is almost always a fold for me. If you fold your action is EV0. You don't earn, you don't lose anything. Call? it's always hard to play vs a tight range even if we are IP. 3bet? I would like to add more hands like weak aces to 3bet pre. If we get a 4bet we clearly fold, if we get a call I prefer to have in my range weak suited aces than AJo because vs a tight right we are clearly dominated like hell, so kicker doesn't matter, but with flush nut draws hand we have more options. I hope I don't need to explain that concept. If we would like to add to our range AJo also then we would have in my opinion too big 3bet range vs utg and from ev+ spot we could actually start to lose in some point. We don't only 3bet suited aces but hands like I mentioned before, some scs, some broadways. Of course if utg is very tight, he overfolds to 3bet and no one behind is a smart guy who would see that we try to exploit utg guy then im ok with 3bet of AJo. But I would never do that as a standard. It's like situation which almost never happens on stakes like nl25.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Right, I see now that giving utg position was wrong, I used this to give super defined range. I like blockers more personally against tight ranges and if called more outs.
 
Full Flush Poker
Top