$25 NLHE 6-max: facing big river shoves-bluffs?

N

nidal55

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Total posts
228
Chips
0
I will present two hands from todays session that made me sick. i was trying to thin valuebet so betting small induces a lot but i d like to read some opinions from u guys:

1)PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 78.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 111.6 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 18)
Hero (SB): 131.76 BB
BB: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 42)
UTG: 99.04 BB (VPIP: 17.78, PFR: 17.04, 3Bet Preflop: 9.26, Hands: 138)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.33, PFR: 15.35, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 205)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9:spade: 9:diamond:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: 6:club: 9:heart:
Hero checks, MP bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 11.32 BB, MP raises to 24 BB, Hero calls 12.68 BB

Turn: (55 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
Hero checks, MP checks

River: (55 BB, 2 players) J:heart:
Hero bets 24 BB, MP raises to 73 BB and is all-in, fold

MP wins 98.36 BB

2)PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 93.48 BB
UTG: 49 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP: 63.68 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
CO: 101 BB (VPIP: 13.70, PFR: 9.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.92, Hands: 1,226)
Hero (BTN): 201.52 BB
SB: 109.08 BB (VPIP: 24.10, PFR: 18.07, 3Bet Preflop: 12.82, Hands: 88)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: J:spade:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) T:spade: 2:club: J:heart:
CO bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (13.4 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
CO bets 7 BB, Hero raises to 20.4 BB, CO calls 13.4 BB

River: (54.2 BB, 2 players) A:heart:
CO checks, Hero bets 17 BB, CO raises to 74.6 BB and is all-in, fold

CO wins 84.24 BB
 
S

Salmon5

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Total posts
79
Chips
0
1st hand, re pop on the flop, only thing that beats you is queens, I don't understand why he re raised then checked the turn... Obviously on the flop he's hit or repping the flush/sd, maybe he had something like Q10 or AQh

2nd hand, not 3 betting jacks vs co's range? I'm 3 betting pre and raising that flop and the turn and probably checking that flop with draws getting there...

Maybe he had pocket aces or a draw, maybe just top pair?

I think you played both hands too passively and let the draws in...

Screw small value bets when draws are there, sets are monsters on those flops... Get it in while your ahead...

Just my 2c, interested in others opinions...
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Bet-folding both are good/standard

Hand 1: Raise flop not turn.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Checking turn in hand 2 is horribad. I would just jam flop.
 
S

Salmon5

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Total posts
79
Chips
0
why bet fold river? what worse calls here?

some fish with tp?
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Hand 1: Shove flop. He could have an overpair or AQ and seems willing to put stacks in. You have middle set. Only QQ beats you. Jam it in.

Hand 2: 3bet preflop. As played, raise flop.


As played in both, folding river is fine. You let draws get there. Playing more aggressively on earlier streets helps to avoid yucky river decisions like this.
 
S

Salmon5

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Total posts
79
Chips
0
whats worse that calls? is top pair calling on that board?
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
I think somebody has fancy play syndrome.

reads on villains and dynamics would be very helpfull here.
villains would have to be super agro maniacs for me to play these sets so passive.

Hand 1 - played terrabad no wonders you nearly spewed

Ship it in on flop , maybe call but bet turn at least - why you checking turn?
as played bet / snapfold river is good , you let everything get there

Hand 2 - also could have been played better
3 bet pre as played raise flop
as played bet / fold river is good
 
N

nidal55

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Total posts
228
Chips
0
ur all right about being straightfrwrd but ill explain myself:
hand 1:hes always bluffing otf so i thought board was not super dangerous so let him hang himself as a shove was left there. river was a bluff as i figured but didnt have the balls to call.
hand 2:dont shove pre jj vs co so dont raise for value could raise flop ofc but as played couldnt call the bluff otr(no balls).
hope this helps. maybe hand 1 its terrabad chasing bluffs away on such a dry dont think its superfancy.its obv he never has a hand and hand 2 i dont think that raising on non superwet boards is obligatory w the nuts.
i think both rivers are a call cause their range speaks otherwise but i hate being the chicken . betting rivers bigger would be the correct play i guess to avoid bluffing and rep some myself and i expected to read sthng like this from everyone but ill try mixing it up less next time and be more straightfrwrd since im playing on jokerstars w their jokerkids. thnx a lot for ur answers expect even more!
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
First hand I would of got it all in on the flop, you were only losing to pocket Queens.

Only calling a 1/3rd pot bet on the flop in the 2nd hand is understandable because you don't want to scare him off. I really feel like it is a call on the river in the 2nd hand because villian would of played AK the same way and thought he had the best hand. It is hard to say he was chasing a backdoor flush draw on the flop.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Total posts
7,363
Awards
16
Chips
13
Imo its just way too passive, I agree with everyone else re hand 1...dream situation that he re-raises just get it in on the flop.
hand 2 with j10 on the flop virtually all broadway holdings pick up gut shots at the least, raising even 9bb is still likely to get a call as he will be drawing to the nut straight.
If you want him to make the biggest mistake jam the turn, if he calls with a draw it has to be an equity mistake and you get your money in good. You may lose some value shoving the turn but at least you win the hand, as it was your call on the turn opens up a full bluffing range to any scare card. The ace helps QK to get there as well as the backdoor flush. folding in the end is probably right.
 
blueskies

blueskies

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Total posts
3,643
Awards
9
Chips
304
Get the stacks all in on the first hand. Alternatively, check call the river. What hand is gonna pay you off on that board?

3 bet pre on the 2nd hand then keep the aggression on full steam. Get the stacks in by the turn.

Remember, if he has a draw and you throw down a wimpy raise, you're letting him stay in. And what happens when he stays in? 1) He misses, in which case you're not gonna get anything on the river anyway unless he's a retard. 2) He makes his flush or straight in which case it is entirely your fault not only by playing passively but by throwing more money into the pot when you are behind.

Thus, you are better off raising it up big on the turn to get your value right there. If no scare river comes, then bet. If he folds, so be it. And if a scare card comes, and he checks, you can check knowing that at least you got some value on the first two streets.

If you're gonna play so passively on the flop and turn, then don't be "value betting" on scary rivers and let your self get folded out. Extract your value early on.
 
Last edited:
Top