$25 NLHE 6-max: BTN Vs SB battle

VIVInv

VIVInv

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Is it Ok to call river shove?

Villans stats based on 60 hands:
VPIP 12
PFR 11
Steal 20
3B 4.2
Cbet 100

Hero stats
VPIP 19
PFR 10
Steal 24
3B 1.9
FoldToCbet 54

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($25)
BB ($25.68)
UTG ($14.94)
MP ($17)
CO ($26.05)
Hero (Button) ($25.66)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A
club.gif
, Q
diamond.gif

3 folds, Hero bets $0.62, SB raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.38

Flop: ($4.25) A
diamond.gif
, J
club.gif
, 6
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($8.25) 3
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $4.75, Hero calls $4.75

River: ($17.75) 6
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $16.25 (All-In), Hero calls $16.25

Total pot: $50.25 | Rake: $2


Considering his 3bet is quite wide as well. For me shove on river was a surprise, cause of the fact that normally regs do value bet instead of shoving. However not much I could beat in that spot, bluff catcher. I loose to AK,AJ,JJ. I beat A10,A9. Less likely him to have A6,AA,66,33.
 
jbbb

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Do you think he'd 3b AT, A9 kinds of hands. If he's competent I would assume not. However over 60 hands you could have a decent idea of how he plays BvB. I'd be inclined to say it looks like a value bet from SB. He knows people call lighter in BvB and you haven't shown an interest in folding so far.
Basically I don't see you beating much apart from a 3 barrel bluff, in which case wp SB.
 
absoluthamm

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Fold. You're beat most of the time. He isn't a spewy villain playing a 12/11, and his 3B is fairly inconclusive with the small sample size. Why go with the big bet on the river? Probably because the way you've played the hand is pretty transparent and just like your average fish does. You made the standard 2.5BB raise from the button, and just called the 3B, shows that your hand is decent, but not a monster. Then you are as passive as you can be through the rest of the hand, which pretty much screams that you have top pair. Now how often have you seen fish call an all-in on the river with only top pair? Thousands!! That's why he is all-in, because the call is coming so often when their opponent plays their hand like this that it becomes profitable over the small value bet.
 
bgomez89

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Let's fold pre?

Pretty sure river is a fold
 
VIVInv

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Fold. You're beat most of the time. He isn't a spewy villain playing a 12/11, and his 3B is fairly inconclusive with the small sample size. Why go with the big bet on the river? Probably because the way you've played the hand is pretty transparent and just like your average fish does. You made the standard 2.5BB raise from the button, and just called the 3B, shows that your hand is decent, but not a monster. Then you are as passive as you can be through the rest of the hand, which pretty much screams that you have top pair. Now how often have you seen fish call an all-in on the river with only top pair? Thousands!! That's why he is all-in, because the call is coming so often when their opponent plays their hand like this that it becomes profitable over the small value bet.

Got it.

Fold pre AQ to a 3b from SB not sure about that.
 
WVHillbilly

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Got it.

Fold pre AQ to a 3b from SB not sure about that.
I'd say fold pre 100% unless he's getting really squirrely from the blinds (at 12/11 I highly doubt it though). AQ plays horribly in 3bet pots.
 
B

baudib1

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I'd call, I don't know what he thinks he's repping, but it's not much. He probably has QQ-KK quite a bit.
 
WVHillbilly

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I'd call, I don't know what he thinks he's repping, but it's not much. He probably has QQ-KK quite a bit.
What?? You think a nit goes crazy with QQ/KK enough to justify calling a PSB river bet? You're getting taken to value town by AK/AJ.
 
B

baudib1

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Probably way too much credit, NL25 regs 3-bet way too much from the blinds.
 
B

baudib1

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I told you he wasn't repping much.
 
jbbb

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Let's fold pre?

Pretty sure river is a fold

Why fold pre? I'll accept this guy looks nitty, but it seems weak to fold a hand like AQ to a 3bet BvB.

Also OP why give results? Hand wasn't even discussed (looks to me like you called, and now are just posting to vent).
 
WVHillbilly

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Why fold pre? I'll accept this guy looks nitty, but it seems weak to fold a hand like AQ to a 3bet BvB.

Also OP why give results? Hand wasn't even discussed (looks to me like you called, and now are just posting to vent).
If you routinely flat 3bets with AQ check your db for how you're fairing in those hands. It will almost certainly make you start folding AQ to 3bets from tight/standard players.
 
jbbb

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If you routinely flat 3bets with AQ check your db for how you're fairing in those hands. It will almost certainly make you start folding AQ to 3bets from tight/standard players.

Database isn't big enough i'm afraid, however i'll take you word for it. Out of interest when do we start calling with AQ? When people start habitually 3betting out of SB we use it to bluff catch or make ourselves less exploitable or what?
 
WVHillbilly

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Database isn't big enough i'm afraid, however i'll take you word for it. Out of interest when do we start calling with AQ? When people start habitually 3betting out of SB we use it to bluff catch or make ourselves less exploitable or what?
Step 1 would be to be playing against people who are exploiting the fact that you fold AQ to 3bets too often. That's just not going to happen at micro stakes or even low small stakes games.
 
bgomez89

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If you routinely flat 3bets with AQ check your db for how you're fairing in those hands. It will almost certainly make you start folding AQ to 3bets from tight/standard players.

this this this
 
Cafeman

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As played, fold river.

You only beat a bluff (btw I count AT/A9 as a made hand turned bluff here). So the question is, how often is he bluffing? Without history, some weird dynamic, etc. he is bluffing approximately never.
 
VIVInv

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Why fold pre? I'll accept this guy looks nitty, but it seems weak to fold a hand like AQ to a 3bet BvB.

Also OP why give results? Hand wasn't even discussed (looks to me like you called, and now are just posting to vent).

I do apologize. I thought it was over.
 
NEWTDOG101

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Fold pre? Why? You are in position and getting the right % to make the call. Why not raise pre, sm pp folds pre here right? C/R flop fold to the shove. No need to flat call flop here raise it or get out the way.
 
WVHillbilly

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Fold pre? Why? You are in position and getting the right % to make the call. Why not raise pre, sm pp folds pre here right? C/R flop fold to the shove. No need to flat call flop here raise it or get out the way.
Because calling 3bet with AQ is NOT profitable. You'll be crushed by AK most of the time a lot of $$ go into the pot or you won't get payed off when you do hit TP because the 3better doesn't have an Ace. Trust me, calling 3bets with AQ, in or out of position, against standard micro stakes player will cost you money. Just fold and smile.
 
VIVInv

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Fold pre? Why? You are in position and getting the right % to make the call. Why not raise pre, sm pp folds pre here right? C/R flop fold to the shove. No need to flat call flop here raise it or get out the way.

What is the point of raising on a flop if going to be called/raised only by better hand and weaker will get away.
Or is this the exact spot there getting info is more important ?
So my question is:
on what kind of board texture raising on a flop for information applies and when its best not to do so?
 
NEWTDOG101

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Your theory is a tough pill to swallow there WVH Sir. So you saying only call with AA-JJ, AK here? Well a lot of players may would tho JJ out here it not really profitable either. I may can just fold but I don't know about the smile! lol
 
bgomez89

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Why would you c/r flop and fold to a shove here? Are you turning aq into a bluff?
 
bgomez89

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Also how do we check/raise flop here
 
WVHillbilly

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Your theory is a tough pill to swallow there WVH Sir. So you saying only call with AA-JJ, AK here? Well a lot of players may would tho JJ out here it not really profitable either. I may can just fold but I don't know about the smile! lol
It's not a theory, unfortunately. I used to call 3bets with AQ and it was a big loser for me. So much so in fact that a couple years ago when I paid someone to analyze my stats AQ was my single biggest losing starting hand. Most of the losses were in 3bet pots (I was also 3betting it WAY too often). Since then, I've stopped calling 3bets with it (hell I don't really call 3bet with much of anything) and I flat opens with it a ton more often preflop and it's gone from biggest loser to solidly profitable.
 
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