3 bet pre is defo the option i would of gone for but as played this is fine, as he donked out he is pretty likely to be on a draw and sometimes worse one pair hands. The 9 is kind of a horrible card for us as if he is drawing with KJ he gets there and that seems pretty likely to me in this spot. So i think this turn is a fold, if not for sure the river
3 bet pre- in hindsight is the option id think id go for if i was to play the hand again,
I think a utg raise has to be respected regardless of villains stats, (I know I was running 32/30 over 55 hands in one of the tables i was playing on at the time), so just to see were we stand I feel we have to throw in a 3-bet here, we dont want to be facing KK,QQ,AA and if we are i want to know about it pre rather than post, because when i hit 'TP' type hands and value bet 3 streets on some boards to find out villain has an over-pair, it would just be bad, we also must get value from 22-JJ, broadway, SC type hands so I agree, a 3-bet is needed.
Yes, when he donks out I put him on the draw, Im not ruling out Q,10,,7,7,,10,10 or even TP but its unlikely hes bloating the pot in that pos. So that leaves all the draws, and on this board there are 48 combos as deco said, 8,9/KJ/J9. I do however feel that the other villains in the pot have a lot of blockers to the straights, so with the donk bet and call by OR I feel I have to put in a 3-bet for value against so many villains, also its a tester bet, just to see where i stand.
Now as i only get one caller i fell ive managed to get rid of TP,PP, maybe some lower draws and also, I would get rid of an over pair some of the time from UTG, I feel.
The 9 as you said is a sick card, KJ gets there, 10,10,,Q,10,,7,7, all remain possibilities and now maybe even Q,9, and other stupid 2P hands, but unlikely. Now lets say villain has the nuts, were crushed but we have shown a lot of strength with or 3-bet on the flop into so many villains, so we too are reaping sets,2P Type hands. So this is what I dont get about the turn donk bet, why isnt villain letting us bet this turn, it keeps all bluffs in(lol), and he has to feel hes getting a bet from a set, T2P. The big donk turn bet just looks weak if nothing else, I do remember J,J crossing my mind but quickly ruled that out, also 8,9,,K,Q might 'bluff' this some of the time, ok the turn brings another heart but surely hes not worried about the re-draw considering the previous betting.?
Flatting pre is fine, your hands strong enough to do so vs what is likely a fairly wide UTG range. If I was to 3bet it would be as a bluff, we'd need a fish to do this for value.
I personally would have flatted the flop bet, I think multiway kq/qj could easily find folds to a raise although with the time to analyize this itt your raise looks better than it first appears due to the large amount of straight draws. 89/KJ/J9 make up 48combos to QT/TT/77s 12combos so this doesn't seem so thin although many of these hands may not be flatted when offsuit.
I fold the turn, his bet size is tempting as KQ could feasibly do this but the stack sizes show controlling the size of the pot is immpossible now the donking out of turn just looks like KJ.
I think we can 3 bet for value against this villain, why is it a bluff unless its a fish.?
I pretty much cover most of this in my 'previous' post so wont repeat myself,
Ya if were calling the turn, (which would be bad imo as i feel a shove/fold is better, as some of the time we have to be getting villain to fold better.), I think we have to call the river unless its a sicko card like a K, 8 or a J, because lets face it were making a fairly big commitment to the pot on the turn, thus i feel or decision has to come on the turn.
