$25 NLHE 6-max: All-in with QQ pre-flop vs. high 3-bet%

$25 NL HE 6-max: All-in with QQ pre-flop vs. high 3-bet%

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 22/16/2.75

Ok, first of all, apologies if I'm posting in this HA forum a little too much, I recently posted another QQ hand here which was all pre-flop, where I folded to a 3-bet.

Now this is a pretty similar situation, and I 4-bet, but I'm not sure if what I did next was ok. The guy's 3-bet percentage was 9% at the time, but in my pokertracker now it says it's only 6.67%, and I only have 143 hands on villain, but anyway, here it is:

full tilt poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 767933
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $25.00
SB: $33.34
BB: $13.75
UTG: $44.78
Hero (CO): $33.57

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with Q Q
UTG raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, BTN raises to $3.35, 3 folds, Hero raises to $11.15, BTN raises to $25 all in, Hero calls $13.85

Flop: ($51.10) A K K

Turn: ($51.10) 7

River: ($51.10) 7

Should I have folded? Should I have 4-bet a little less to make a fold a bit easier?

My reasoning: He was on the button, he likes to 3-bet, particularly with 1.85 already in the pot, so easy 4-bet, then when he goes all-in I have to spend 13.85 to win 36.15 (right?) so I guess the pot odds just seemed too tempting...

Looking at it now, I only called from UTG+1, I think I was actually trying to induce a 3-bet, and maybe the UTG was pretty tight and his opening range from that position was pretty small and we were like 125BB deep... Guess I should've 3-bet maybe... But then perhaps I'd have lost some value since 3-betting UTG from UTG+1 is a pretty strong move...?

Anyway, I'll leave it to you guys to fill me in, cheers!

Its not an easy 4bet

He isnt 3betting an MP2 open and a CO call a Co open and a BTN call. He is 3betting an UTG open with an UTG+1 call so you should assume his 3betting range is stronger. If you put him on JJ+ AK then QQ is slightly behind that range and even further behind his "I'm not folding to your 4bet range" You dont fold out enough hands to sow a profit from your fold equity and if he dosent fold you dont win enough to show a profit from getting it all in.

9% 3bet 6% 3bet... he isnt 3betting all that wide and he certainly isnt sticking around after a 4bet with a wide range. You were a little too quick to lable him as a wide 3better (you have less than 200 hands on him).

Flatting UTG is bad! You are not guaranteed to play in position.

You give fantastic odds for people to overcall and play large MW pots where QQ is a hand that suffers from RIO.

You also put yourself in this position when 3bet.

So whilst I would flat QQ on the BTN or possibly the CO if the BTN is a nit I would never flat QQ from EP or MP.

Jesus, why are you so paranoid about 3-betting/getting in QQ? You're probably one of the most weak-tight players I've ever seen in my life. Tightness is fine & all, but please take your water wings off.

c9h13no3 said:

Jesus, why are you so paranoid about 3-betting/getting in QQ? You're probably one of the most weak-tight players I've ever seen in my life. Tightness is fine & all, but please take your water wings off.

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Honestly I'm not paranoid about 3betting.. if I see a situation where I am ahead I will take it.

I will call shoves with 66.. I will shove with complete air.

However I am also very aware that the average player is playing so tightly that its more profitable to let go than it is to get the money in.

Thats why I factor in the position of the original raiser when putting a villian on a range.

What people seem to forget is just how often 4bets need to work in order to show a profit. You can 3bet and 5bet/shove much lighter than you can 4bet.

3bets have tonnes of fold equity and shoves guarantee a SD with a lot of dead money in the pot but 4bets often win small pots and end up against a range that crushes them when shoved over.

As yourself this: why do people open up their 3bet range?

Is it not more often a means of attacking a wide CO range or defending from the blinds?

In this situation this isnt happening, the 3bet it attacking an UTG raise. Surely you have to think that denotes a stronger range than when attacking a CO range.

Stu_Ungar said:

Honestly I'm not paranoid about 3betting

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Was talking to the OP. I think he's posted 2-3 QQ hands, and in all of them, he's essentially been playing QQ as passively and oddly as possible. I really don't know what else to tell him.

I guess he doesn't want to overplay his QQ but doesn't feel very comfortable throwing it away either. I feel his pain sometimes. I usually stick it all in and am often surprised when they have complete trash.

Of course they have AA/KK often enough to make me think too.

I think he needs to 3 bet the UTG open raise. Only thing calling does is allow more people to call. My play would be 3bet to $2.25ish. Now if the Button 4 bets, it can't be too big of a bet, maybe $8. So now you have a decision to make. You can fold saying I only have $2.25 invested with a vulnerable hand getting pressured. Or you ship it on him and make him play for a decision to play for the rest of his $17. I think either decision is fine.

I think you put yourself in a bad spot by calling and giving the rest of the table the opportunity to take command of the hand. So now your put to a decision for your most of your stack with QQ, when you could be the one putting them to a decision. It's an uncomfortable feeling calling off your stack with QQ, I try to avoid it.

You should raise preflop and then fold or push all in if he reraise.

3 bet the open preflop.

I would have def 3 bet to define the opening standard raise which has to have a tight range.