$25 NLHE 6-max: AJ TPTK IP with action infront.

$25 NL HE 6-max: AJ TPTK IP with action infront.

HAND #1

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

CO: $42.95 (171.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $25 (100 bb)
SB: $6.05 (24.2 bb)
BB: $23 (92 bb)
UTG: $27.65 (110.6 bb)
MP: $25 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with A J
UTG folds, MP raises to $1, CO folds, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($3.25) 3 6 J (3 players)
SB bets $1, MP raises to $4, Hero is ashamed for having no clue what to do.


MP Is a complete unknown, he just sat down waited for BB and haves auto-reload turned on.
He also multitables cause i see him waiting for BB on another one of my tables.

SB Is you classic horrible 25nl SS,stats are 35/10/1,4 over a small sample he has a donk bet of 30%.
His range for donkbetting this flop imo is something like any J,77-TT,FD,any 6 and some air.
If he has a strong J,two pair or a set i would expect him to C/R.
I expect him to stack with any J and a FD, he probably folds most sixes and under pairs.

So whats are move here?
MP is a unknown but the litle we know of him he seems to atleast have some knowledge of poker, is he just doing this cause raising donk bets is the think to do?
In witch case are we bumbing this to 12-14$?
Can we call and evaluate turn?
Whats are move if we call and the turn is 2c and villain barrels?

Well sb's range we're killing, but I'm inclined to fold to mp since he just won't raise this flop very often with TT or worse. I expect mostly overpairs and strong draws, but the other problem is that he could be raising JT-KJ for value which just makes it harder to pin him on an accurate range.

I might cold call and fold to later action if MP is a more aggressive player who we know raises donk bets tons, but I'm going to make the assumption that at 25nl the player pool is more passive and he more than likely has an actual hand. I just don't expect bluff raises very often 3-way, on that kind of flop texture, and given the SB's tiny stack (all pointing towards MP not having much fold equity).

I think it's a fold given reads and the general situation.

Chuck, Same situation same villain but there both fullstacked.
How would we play it?

It's probably even more of a fold since our reverse implied odds are much worse. I guess MP's raising range could widen some, but again I don't expect the average 25nl reg to understand that concept too much, so we'd basically be in the same situation with more money behind, which I don't like.

sindri_93 said:

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with A

J

UTG folds, MP raises to $1, CO folds, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($3.25) 3

6

J

(3 players)
SB bets $1, MP raises to $4, Hero is ashamed for having no clue what to do.

Click to expand...

Well, you and me both in this situation.

But Chuck's advice seems sound.

I'm never folding this.
The SB has made a tiny donkbet, we just cannot regard MPs raise with the same respect as a normal raise because of this.

Heck he was the preflop raiser I can't see him ditching his hand just because the SB has bet $1 into him, I think most pairs, any draw and a whole lot of air is in the MPs range.

eh i dunno if i agree with you deco...

you telling me you would never fold this?!?!

if you would never fold this.....you would not be a winnning poker player...probably a great fold, could have been up against 66 33 QQ KK or even AA...hell you could of been up against trip J's!!! never know....one thing you do know...you saved money

PattyR said:

eh i dunno if i agree with you deco...

you telling me you would never fold this?!?!

if you would never fold this.....you would not be a winnning poker player...probably a great fold, could have been up against 66 33 QQ KK or even AA...hell you could of been up against trip J's!!! never know....one thing you do know...you saved money

Click to expand...

Lets say I am wrong and this is a bad call it would certainly be a marginal spot I doubt folding Top pair ace kicker to a raise I essentially see as threatening as a continuation bet.

Are we seeing the same hand here or are you basing that I am wrong based on the fact I'm going against a reg on my opinion here?

I've discussed hands with Clean on forums other than this and respect his posts/ knowledge at poker. All the more reason for me to disagree with him on a hand as if i happen to be wrong I plug a leak in my game and my winrate increases (which isn't negative like you've intelligently predicted), if I happen to be right I get a nice ego boost lol

Deco said:

Lets say I am wrong and this is a bad call it would certainly be a marginal spot I doubt folding Top pair ace kicker to a raise I essentially see as threatening as a continuation bet.

Are we seeing the same hand here or are you basing that I am wrong based on the fact I'm going against a reg on my opinion here?

I've discussed hands with Clean on forums other than this and respect his posts/ knowledge at poker. All the more reason for me to disagree with him on a hand as if i happen to be wrong I plug a leak in my game and my winrate increases (which isn't negative like you've intelligently predicted), if I happen to be right I get a nice ego boost lol

Click to expand...

im assuming "clean" is ChuckTs?

anyway i do agree with Deco that the raise merits less respect because some guy donked into him. i myself have been known to raise smallish donk bets like this with anything so i see where Deco gets that idea from.

but even then if we call flop we have to fold turn if he fires and he probably will so i just fold the flop

jewboy07 said:

anyway i do agree with Deco that the raise merits less respect because some guy donked into him. i myself have been known to raise smallish donk bets like this with anything so i see where Deco gets that idea from.

Click to expand...

I've done the same and with nothing more than overcards in a situation like this. But I'm not very likely to do so with a full stack in the button yet to act.

jewboy07 said:

im assuming "clean" is ChuckTs?

anyway i do agree with Deco that the raise merits less respect because some guy donked into him. i myself have been known to raise smallish donk bets like this with anything so i see where Deco gets that idea from.

but even then if we call flop we have to fold turn if he fires and he probably will so i just fold the flop

Click to expand...

Yeah i agree i raise these donk bet all day but usualy just in HU pots.

The real question is does a unknown 25nl do it?

NineLions said:

I've done the same and with nothing more than overcards in a situation like this. But I'm not very likely to do so with a full stack in the button yet to act.

Click to expand...

the player knows that if button gets involved hes just done with the hand because the player on the button has a hand everytime so he could do it with the intention of giving up to any further action

sindri_93 said:

Yeah i agree i raise these donk bet all day but usualy just in HU pots.

The real question is does a unknown 25nl do it?

Click to expand...

but in general i would say no most unknowns arent capable of doing it and i dont think he is here so i just fold

sindri_93 said:

The real question is does a unknown 25nl do it?

Click to expand...

Exactly, this completely depends on the 'average' reg at 25nl and whether or not he's familiar with donk bets and how to deal with them. Even a good player won't raise very wide here given the texture and number of players, so that's why I'm inclined to just fold.

All right i think i got what i needed. Thanks all.

I ended up folding thinking a unknown just doesnt do this with ATC to often and SB surprisingly folded to.
If this would have been later in the sesion i would have defenetly shipped it in there seeing as MP turned out to be a pretty decent laggy player and im pretty sure he is raising there with most overcards,few under pairs and obviously monsters.