$25 NLHE 6-max: AA vs full house cooler - bad beat or bad play?

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker - https://upswingpoker.com/replayer/1q9fZJ1

West CoastN (UTG): $10.56 (106 bb)
Poker9Prophet5 (MP): $10.00 (100 bb)
LOVESN+ (CO): $35.75 (358 bb)
sportsguy16 (BU): $26.51 (265 bb)
Harleydog2054 (SB): $1.12 (11 bb)
endinglife1 (BB): $13.19 (132 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (sportsguy16) is BTN with A♦ A♥
West CoastN (UTG) raises to $0.35, 2 players fold, sportsguy16 (BU) 3-bets to $0.60, 1 fold, endinglife1 (BB) calls $0.50, West CoastN (UTG) calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.85) 6♣ 6♦ 7♥ (3 players)
endinglife1 (BB) checks, West CoastN (UTG) checks, sportsguy16 (BU) bets $1, endinglife1 (BB) folds, West CoastN (UTG) calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) T♠ (2 players)
West CoastN (UTG) checks, sportsguy16 (BU) bets $3, West CoastN (UTG) calls $3

River: ($9.85) 5♣ (2 players)
West CoastN (UTG) bets $2.46, sportsguy16 (BU) raises to $4.92, West CoastN (UTG) raises to $5.96 (all-in), sportsguy16 (BU) calls $1.04

Total pot: $21.77 (Rake: $1.08)

Showdown:
West CoastN (UTG) shows 7♠ 6♠ (a full house, Sixes full of Sevens)
(equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

sportsguy16 (BU) shows A♦ A♥ (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 77%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

West CoastN (UTG) wins $20.69

well that westcoast guy was pretty loose to begin with, raising UTG with a hand like that....but he just got REALLY lucky and caught a dream flop. To me, you def. did not play bad...it's just like they say, you can't fart against thunder.!!

sportsguy16 said:

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker - https://upswingpoker.com/replayer/1q9fZJ1

West CoastN (UTG): $10.56 (106 bb)
Poker9Prophet5 (MP): $10.00 (100 bb)
LOVESN+ (CO): $35.75 (358 bb)
sportsguy16 (BU): $26.51 (265 bb)
Harleydog2054 (SB): $1.12 (11 bb)
endinglife1 (BB): $13.19 (132 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (sportsguy16) is BTN with A[emoji815] A[emoji813]
West CoastN (UTG) raises to $0.35, 2 players fold, sportsguy16 (BU) 3-bets to $0.60, 1 fold, endinglife1 (BB) calls $0.50, West CoastN (UTG) calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.85) 6[emoji814] 6[emoji815] 7[emoji813] (3 players)
endinglife1 (BB) checks, West CoastN (UTG) checks, sportsguy16 (BU) bets $1, endinglife1 (BB) folds, West CoastN (UTG) calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) T[emoji812] (2 players)
West CoastN (UTG) checks, sportsguy16 (BU) bets $3, West CoastN (UTG) calls $3

River: ($9.85) 5[emoji814] (2 players)
West CoastN (UTG) bets $2.46, sportsguy16 (BU) raises to $4.92, West CoastN (UTG) raises to $5.96 (all-in), sportsguy16 (BU) calls $1.04

Total pot: $21.77 (Rake: $1.08)

Showdown:
West CoastN (UTG) shows 7[emoji812] 6[emoji812] (a full house, Sixes full of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

sportsguy16 (BU) shows A[emoji815] A[emoji813] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 77%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

West CoastN (UTG) wins $20.69

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I'm cool with everything but the river.... after firing 2 strong barrels on a 3Bet pot, what are you getting to call on the river that is worse then over pair???? nothing.... only better is calling, and only worse is folding. Meaning we are getting zero value from this jam.... most importantly if your gonna raise that river bet you have to get it all in to maximize fold equity.... make the story make since, definitely not level behind $1 you have to call off.

Some would argue, "Well we might get a set of 6s to fold."

I agree with that to a point, but how meny 6s play a 3Bet pot, and more importantly how meny 6s that did flat Out of Position, getting out of line, that doesnt check raise the flop? A6 maybe, and 76, which is a little less then half of the 6s they could have in thier range. K6s, maybe Q6s, and 65

If you just call, you still have $5.50ish behind. That 50BBs, and plenty of room to get back up to 100BBs.

I think that a lot of your pain and misery over this hand could have been averted by making a bigger 3 bet pf. Literally, a min 3 bet, makes it way too easy for all hands to continue and see a flop. make a 3 bet to about 10 or 11 BBs.

Sidetracked said:

I think that a lot of your pain and misery over this hand could have been averted by making a bigger 3 bet pf. Literally, a min 3 bet, makes it way too easy for all hands to continue and see a flop. make a 3 bet to about 10 or 11 BBs.

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Before reading the responses, this is what I was thinking too. You should make a big raise, let's say....to at least 1.50. If they call on that, then they are just an agro player willing to gamble with garbage.

JBGoode said:

I'm cool with everything but the river.... after firing 2 strong barrels on a 3Bet pot, what are you getting to call on the river that is worse then over pair???? nothing.... only better is calling, and only worse is folding. Meaning we are getting zero value from this jam.... most importantly if your gonna raise that river bet you have to get it all in to maximize fold equity.... make the story make since, definitely not level behind $1 you have to call off.

Some would argue, "Well we might get a set of 6s to fold."

I agree with that to a point, but how meny 6s play a 3Bet pot, and more importantly how meny 6s that did flat Out of Position, getting out of line, that doesnt check raise the flop? A6 maybe, and 76, which is a little less then half of the 6s they could have in thier range. K6s, maybe Q6s, and 65



If you just call, you still have $5.50ish behind. That 50BBs, and plenty of room to get back up to 100BBs.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help! I really like the thought process on the river.

Thanks guys!

Sidetracked said:

I think that a lot of your pain and misery over this hand could have been averted by making a bigger 3 bet pf. Literally, a min 3 bet, makes it way too easy for all hands to continue and see a flop. make a 3 bet to about 10 or 11 BBs.

Click to expand...

I would argue that by keeping the 3bet small we get a wider range to call. Yea we get into this exsact situation when we do, but we go in right around a 70% favorite. That means we win 70% of the time.... if we raise bigger we have roughly about the same, differance is if we bet big, the hand that beat us are set up post flop that makes it super hard for us to fold cause we have blockers to the top.level straight and possibly flushes....

Now in this situation it did have the adverse effect, granted we played this hand perfectly till the river IMO.... and if we played the river perfectly, we could fought it up the variance, and still have 50BBs to play with by folding the river....

If we were to raise bigger we get 0 value post flop by hands that call a larger raise....

And if anyone says, "well if we raise bigger here we take it down without taking a cooler."

I say, "that's resualts oriented thinking, and a resualts oriented player is break even long term at best."

We wouldnt even be having this conversation if that 7 was a A.... cause the 6s call the small 3Bet, the 2 large barrels, and we check down river and get max value....

So to say you bet big here, think how beneficial it would had been if we bet big pre, took it down, and rabbit 66A instead of 667.... cause it could just as easily happend.... and we would have never known....

All we know is we have 70% equity against any other random 2 cards.... and we need to keep hands in pre to extract value those 7 out of 10 times we win on the river.

This 3bet size is not only terrible with this hand but for your overall range. At these stakes you make your money by putting in a lot of money with more equity than your opponents. You have the best hand preflop, you want money in, it's actually that simple. How do you know he won't call with 76o if you make it $1.20? What about hands like JTs which may call $1.20 but instead you only charged them 60c and they're going to play very well against your hand postflop?

There are reasons to 3-bet smaller (still not this small) in this type of situation if you're exploiting an opponent. If your only read is they're a 10nl player, you just want to 3-bet a normal size of 3-4x the original open.

Flop and turn look fine, as mentioned by others just call the river bet, no real point to raising.

JBGoode said:

I would argue that by keeping the 3bet small we get a wider range to call. Yea we get into this exsact situation when we do, but we go in right around a 70% favorite. That means we win 70% of the time.... if we raise bigger we have roughly about the same, differance is if we bet big, the hand that beat us are set up post flop that makes it super hard for us to fold cause we have blockers to the top.level straight and possibly flushes....

Now in this situation it did have the adverse effect, granted we played this hand perfectly till the river IMO.... and if we played the river perfectly, we could fought it up the variance, and still have 50BBs to play with by folding the river....

If we were to raise bigger we get 0 value post flop by hands that call a larger raise....

And if anyone says, "well if we raise bigger here we take it down without taking a cooler."

I say, "that's resualts oriented thinking, and a resualts oriented player is break even long term at best."

We wouldnt even be having this conversation if that 7 was a A.... cause the 6s call the small 3Bet, the 2 large barrels, and we check down river and get max value....

So to say you bet big here, think how beneficial it would had been if we bet big pre, took it down, and rabbit 66A instead of 667.... cause it could just as easily happend.... and we would have never known....

All we know is we have 70% equity against any other random 2 cards.... and we need to keep hands in pre to extract value those 7 out of 10 times we win on the river.

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Having a bigger 3-bet makes post flop play easier because you can narrow down your opponenets range more. Letting a bigger range see a flop is all good (like you said, still a big favorite) but you have to have better post-flop play which includes being able to fold aces. 67s is actually a pretty good hand to try to crack acces with so I would rather not let that hand see the flop cheaply.

I think the 3bet size preflop is too small -- idea of 3betting here is to limit the field and put as much money in the pot as you can. A small 3bet allows for too many weak hands to stay in the hand for far too cheap. Each additional player in the pot decreases the equity of your pocket AAs.

Vast majority of the time, a standard 3bet (~10BB) would filter out the weaker hands. And if this opponent sticks around, he/she will lose against your AA far more often than not, so you want to make them pay dearly for calling too loosely.

As it is played, I think flop and turn looks good. But river... I don't quite know why you raised there. There was a potential for a set, straight and full house on the board, and all you had was a 2 pair (really, the lowest hand ranking of anything that's on the board outside of a bluff)... only thing you could have beat was a bluff and a smaller pair.

It would have been really hard to move villain off the pot after that donk bet on the river -- villain only had another ~$3.50 to go before going all in. I think you have to wonder why the villain chose that particular bet size on the river bet - a bet that's begging for a call. If villain was going to bluff, why not bluff with the whole remaining stack to maximize fold equity? Villain's bet size would have made it too hard to fold against, but raising was basically a gift wrap from you to villain. I think calling river would make the most sense.

And as I mentioned in an earlier post in another thread -- next time you post a hand analysis, please hide the opponents names out of respect for the game. Should be able to do that with the hand converter.

yoejslattery said:

Having a bigger 3-bet makes post flop play easier because you can narrow down your opponenets range more. Letting a bigger range see a flop is all good (like you said, still a big favorite) but you have to have better post-flop play which includes being able to fold aces. 67s is actually a pretty good hand to try to crack acces with so I would rather not let that hand see the flop cheaply.

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And I would agree with that.... matter of fact there are spots I go over in my study group that I'll litterally put a disclaimer on.... and say, "this hand is purely how comfertable you are playing post flop. Me I can think 2 or 3 streets ahead, know exsactly what do, and not get flustered when a scare card comes. If your not that good, or that comfertable I suggest just playing standard. With that said, to maximize value. This is how I believe you should play it."

So yea, I totally agree with, "you should always 3Bet big, if you dont know how to adjust your game post flop, or get uncomfortable in tough spots."

Your opponent played fine.. you raised waaay to small preflop that's not even a raise rest of thr hand is ok.. i wouldn't raise the river unless i think that guy is total nuts.. else there is no point

As others have already said, your main mistake is making the 3-bet way to small. You are simply not charging him enough or cutting down on his implied odds, when you make this little massage bet. And if you only do this with aces and kings, it is obviously also a hugely unbalanced play. In general I see no reason to have two different 3-bet sizes, so pick a nice standard size like 3X in position and 4X out of position and just stick to it.

Completely ignoring, how we got here, I am ok with your flop bet, but I think, your turn bet is to large. At this point you already need to get at least a little concerned about, what he is calling you with, and try to stay away from accidentally committing yourself to the pot. Maybe bet like 2$ rather than 3, and if this induce him to check-raise, we can generally just fold. A turn raise in a situation like this is so rarely a bluff in the micros.

On the river his lead is pretty weird, but it feel a bit thin to raise. He could have QQ or JJ maybe, but other than those exact two hands, his value beat us, so I prefer to just call and take a showdown. In that way you could at least have saved yourself the last 35BB.