$25 NLHE 6-max: 25NL 6max - Facing River Shove

lupefan

lupefan

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$25 NL HE 6-max: 25NL 6max - Facing River Shove

Could it be a missed flush draw? I only see short stacks do this...I can see a J or 5, maybe he called with 2nd pair on turn...Idk...

poker stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 493399
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $13.90
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $19.90
SB: $24.75
BB: $5.20

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A :heart: Q :diamond:
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.25) 5 :diamond: 5 :spade: J :diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.25) A :club: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

River: ($13.25) J :heart: (2 players)
SB bets $18.25 all in, Hero folds
 
Leo 50

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I would have to guess a set on the flop
 
slycbnew

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Looks a heckuva lot like Jx to me.
 
Deco

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Any stats?

This guy has called a steal from the blinds. If he is halfway decent this will be a very tight range and hence will not have many flush draws. So my standard here is to fold.
To be honest even if he is a fish most people won't make this move with the busted flush draw. Everyone will make this move with their trip Jacks so I still fold.

The only way I would call is if he has snap called the turn and has a wide range from the blinds. A jack would have to think long and hard about calling the turn. A flush draw would not. Timing tells can be very useful in these spots.
 
Double-A

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I'm checking that turn sometimes.

Doesn't pass much value...avoids this situation.

As played I say insta-fold.
 
Deco

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I'm checking that turn sometimes.

Doesn't pass much value...avoids this situation.

As played I say insta-fold.

25NL players call down with jacks all day here. It appears this guy did so the turn bet was crammed full of delicious value.
 
Double-A

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25NL players call down with jacks all day here. It appears this guy did so the turn bet was crammed full of delicious value.

I think betting the turn just sets us up for a bigger river bet that only gets called when we lose.

If the guy will call $6-$10 on the river w/ KJ-JT then we miss some value.

The ace has to scare him a little though...

Checking saves money when we are behind (unlikely), induces bets/calls on the river from Jx, TT-22, and weaker aces. I think lots of those hands fold river bets after a bet on the turn. Checking doesn't give many outs...
 
PattyR

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looks like a definite insta fold imo
 
slycbnew

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I think betting the turn just sets us up for a bigger river bet that only gets called when we lose.

If the guy will call $6-$10 on the river w/ KJ-JT then we miss some value.

The ace has to scare him a little though...

Checking saves money when we are behind (unlikely), induces bets/calls on the river from Jx, TT-22, and weaker aces. I think lots of those hands fold river bets after a bet on the turn. Checking doesn't give many outs...

But if he folds to a river bet when the J doesn't pair, we're losing a lot of value ($4 here as played) - if we're putting him on a lot of Jx/pp's/weaker A's on the turn (that's what I'd put him on, plus a couple of hands that we're behind that make up a very small part of his range imo), we really need to make that turn bet imo, cuz I don't think he'll call the river but will call the turn.
 
ukaliks

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I'm checking that turn sometimes.

Doesn't pass much value...avoids this situation.

As played I say insta-fold.

I check my A on the turn sometimes aswell. It gives a image that ur scared of the A and people will sometimes make a river bet with a weaker holding or a river bluff, so this increases extra vaule on the river that we'd miss if we were to jus bet with our Aces.

But I also agree that u have to bet for ur A in this situation bcos u need to find out if he's on a flushdraw or that he's slowplayin a monster. He calls ur turn bet and makes that river bet then u've gotta kinda guess that ur well behind unless u've seen villain play weaker A's this way.

He's got the J.... His river shove is never quads...Intresting hand but easy to fold.
 
thepokerkid123

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Weak J, JT/J9.

I bet this turn most of the time because of the flush draw and obviously on blank rivers I'm value betting. I don't see any reason to check for pot control, you paired your overcard on the turn, your hand is stronger than it looks.

Fold on the river when the J pairs and he bets like this though. If he checks, check behind.
 
Double-A

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But if he folds to a river bet when the J doesn't pair, we're losing a lot of value ($4 here as played) - if we're putting him on a lot of Jx/pp's/weaker A's on the turn (that's what I'd put him on, plus a couple of hands that we're behind that make up a very small part of his range imo), we really need to make that turn bet imo, cuz I don't think he'll call the river but will call the turn.

Hmmmm...

I don't think I should have said, checking doesn't pass much value. I think I should have said checking doesn't always miss value. When we're up against Jx that will call down, checking misses a pot sized bet. That's bad, I get it.

So, after our cbet, I guess we need to consider: Does he have a jack? Will he call down unimproved?

I think a jack raises that flop often enough that we can discount the chances he has one. Maybe he has a jack.

Ace on the turn and we can discount the chances that he calls down. Betting 3 streets will surly look like big pairs/aces to him.

He has to have a jack, that isn't AJ, he has to have passed up a 3bet on the flop, and he has to be willing to call down 3 bets with an ace on the board. With him facing possible big pairs, Ax, and better jacks; I just don't see getting in 3 bets AND getting them called unless we lose.

I'll stand by checking that turn, sometimes.

It's interesting though. I'm going to spend some time looking through my hands w/ paired boards...
 
Double-A

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sly- Doh! I just realized that I didn't respond to what you said exactly... I was more backing up what I said earlier... it early... I need more coffee.
 
slycbnew

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sly- Doh! I just realized that I didn't respond to what you said exactly... I was more backing up what I said earlier... it early... I need more coffee.

np :D
 
Deco

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I think betting the turn just sets us up for a bigger river bet that only gets called when we lose.

We can make this river bet as little or as big as we please.
If villain the river had bricked I'd have bet $6. Yes its a puny bet but the jacks will call us and we've managed to extract an extra $6 than we would have if we had checked the turn.

The betsize depends on the player of course. If you've been triple barreling someone alot or your up against a station you can easily 3/4 pot this and expect a call from jacks.
 
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