200nl 6max; AK backraise

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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MP is a 30/12/2 fish. %44 fold to 3bet, %1 4bet.

BTN is a 19/16/3 regular who apparently used to play 400nl but due to not adjusting and being generally sucky has dropped down to 200nl. He's got %6 3bet, %9 squeeze and a %45 fold to 4bet. I steal off him a ton and 4bet him a little more than usual since someone better than me has said he has history with him and he's someone to do so against.

I'm 23/20ish, high 3bet % with hazel eyes. I like long walks on the beach and saying 'rawr' when I play poker.

Good spot for a backraise ya? You like? I like! High five!

Seriously, any comments on this, maybe 4bet a smaller standard $55-60 and call it off or take some other pf line?

poker stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: $200 (100 bb)
BB: $195 (97.5 bb)
MP: $302.50 (151.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $551.35 (275.7 bb)
BTN: $223.65 (111.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A
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K
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MP raises to $8, Hero calls $8, BTN raises to $26, 2 folds, MP calls $18, Hero raises to $551.35 and is all-in
 
S

switch0723

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is BTN good enough to squeeze there as a norm play to isolate the fish? if so i like the play (even if BTN folds, the fish may look us up with all kinds of crap)

The question imo, is how often does BTN squeeze here, and are we better off just isolating the fish in position? Even though i suck at this type of thing, i think i prefer the line of 3 betting in position against the fish with the juicy stack rather than getting all technical and hoping for a squeeze.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I am in love with this.
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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I like it, perfect spot for this play, imo.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Isn't this usually called a squeeze trap?
 
ChuckTs

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never heard that before, I guess it could be called both :)

I do know that a backraise is either limping then reraising a squeeze or doing what I did.

switch:

I think 3betting the fish is good but not great. I think if we 3bet in the first place, we're actually not in fantastic shape against that guy, which is why I flatted with the intention of doing what I did if the btn squeezed (which he should very often here as I should be 3betting almost all my big hands against the fish, and hence it's a better squeezing spot as my range is pretty weak). We fold if the initial raiser 4bets or shoves, and get it in if he does anything else.

I dunno, there are cases for both lines, but I'm not sure I like 3betting the fish this deep with a hand that really isn't in great shape and doesn't extract value too well (like vs JJ on an Axx board or whatever).
 
tenbob

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Depends, are you looking for a call from MP or a fold, a call from fish or a fold.

Looking at the hand in isolation its a fantasitc play, but really you need to be able to justify both squeezing and calling ranges from MP (i know you know), for this to work. Dunno thh, you outlevelling a bit ?
 
ChuckTs

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MP = fish
BTN = taggy squeezer
just to clarify.

After the call from MP I basically put him on a weaker ace or <KK that I have fold equity against. Dead money in the middle helps too, though I'm not sure how much.

Against the BTN with a %9 3bet and a fold to 4bet % of 44 means I'm in great shape and have good fold equity too. Minus the weird dynamics of this hand, like if it were just me and him btn vs sb or co vs btn or whatever, I'm %100000 stacking a player with these 3bet/fold to 4bet stats with AK.

I don't think we're necessarily worried about 'looking for a call or a fold', but just realizing we have good equity and good fold equity against both of them.
 
tenbob

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MP = fish
BTN = taggy squeezer
just to clarify.

After the call from MP I basically put him on a weaker ace or <KK that I have fold equity against. Dead money in the middle helps too, though I'm not sure how much.

Against the BTN with a %9 3bet and a fold to 4bet % of 44 means I'm in great shape and have good fold equity too. Minus the weird dynamics of this hand, like if it were just me and him btn vs sb or co vs btn or whatever, I'm %100000 stacking a player with these 3bet/fold to 4bet stats with AK.

I don't think we're necessarily worried about 'looking for a call or a fold', but just realizing we have good equity and good fold equity against both of them.

Yep I know about the equity involved, but if your called you basically dead/flipping here , am i missing something though ? Perhaps the FR nit coming out in me, but shoving AK vs effictive 150 deep, vs the biggest of fish is marginal at best. Especially in a 4 bet pot vs a reg AND a fish, even if it is a level vs a bad reg. Unless this is playing the player, then i just dont get it.

Feed me more information please.

Edit : Shouldnt we always be looking for a call or a fold (ranges at least), and looking at what happens in each senario.

Edit 2 : Im a bit drunk
 
ChuckTs

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Well what's the fish calling the squeeze with? He's almost definitely coming over the top with KK+, and if he's just calling, he's going to take more time than he did in the hand (which I should have mentioned).

I'm really not worried about stacking AK against the btn with 100bb stacks, and the fish rarely has a hand that crushes me here imo.
 
vanquish

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reg calls here a lot wider because it looks like chuck is turning a small pair into a bluff, so it's possible he calls worse, and the fish can end up shipping in with like KJ because he's a fish. it looks pretty good all around
 
zachvac

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hmm, I think I prefer the smaller 4-bet. The fish is 150 BBs deep. Even most fish won't call off their stack with AQ or something you crush that deep will they? He may be bad and call with 99 there, but that doesn't help us at all. Also if you 4-bet small you can basically confuse the hell out of the ex-400nler to the point where he may outlevel himself thinking you're putting him on a squeeze and raising because of that. He could then shove hands like suited connectors and AT+. The only problem is that he will also shove 99+ which we would rather he fold in this instance with dead money in the pot. But I think the mere fact that getting him to stack AT+/SCs against our AK outweighs him not folding PPs just because the mistake of stacking the non-pairs is so much bigger than the slight edge we gain by folding out PPs.

I actually like flatting AK more and more in position preflop for two main reasons. First is that you don't fold out hands like AJ/AQ which will pay you when you both hit aces but probably fold to a 3-bet when they're oop. And the other is this example. It's a little different in 6max and FR but I'm not willing to raise/raise get it in with AK. But if it's bet-call-squeeze-fold I have an easy raise/stack. If the original raiser comes over the top of the squeezer I can then fold because he most of the time never does this without KK+. I realize ranges are wider in 6max and the second reason here isn't as big, but I definitely do like flatting AK in position a lot.
 
NineLions

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I actually like flatting AK more and more in position preflop for two main reasons. First is that you don't fold out hands like AJ/AQ which will pay you when you both hit aces but probably fold to a 3-bet when they're oop. And the other is this example. It's a little different in 6max and FR but I'm not willing to raise/raise get it in with AK. But if it's bet-call-squeeze-fold I have an easy raise/stack. If the original raiser comes over the top of the squeezer I can then fold because he most of the time never does this without KK+. I realize ranges are wider in 6max and the second reason here isn't as big, but I definitely do like flatting AK in position a lot.

Nicely put, zach. It's why I throw away AJ even AQ sometimes behind a raiser, but I never thought about the opposite; flatting with AK hoping that they have AQ/AJ.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Are you ever doing this with a hand other than AK? Because it looks so much like AK to me that i might convince myself to call with TT from the BTN.
 
dsvw56

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Because it looks so much like AK to me that i might convince myself to call with TT from the BTN.

There's $60 in the pot at that point, so getting called by TT is fine. We have 40% equity vs. TT+,AK, so we don't have to pick this up very often to show a profit. I honestly don't think the fish ever is calling with anything we arent flipping with. He might occasionally show up with KK+, but I think the times he calls with AQ or whatever more than make up for that, imo. It's like 3a.m. right now, which is too late for math, but off the top of my head if all fold 25% of the time or more, this will show an immediate profit. And I'm fairly convinced a shove here is going to win the pot >35%.
 
F Paulsson

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Are you ever doing this with a hand other than AK? Because it looks so much like AK to me that i might convince myself to call with TT from the BTN.
If button, SB or BB 3-bet and/or squeeze a lot, this is a fairly typical move for me with AA.

Edited to add: ... and whoever opened needs to have a high fold-to-3bet% as well, of course.
 
ChuckTs

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Are you ever doing this with a hand other than AK?

Yes (big pairs, sometimes raising smaller, sometimes AQ hands if the btn is really spewy, sometimes turn 9Ts hands into bluffs with smaller backraises), but also I don't think it matters what I will do this with, but what the button thinks I'll do this with. I mentioned I 4bet him often, so he probably sees me as pretty spewy and will often look me up pretty light.
 
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