200max flopped flush

no reads on villian

pokerstars Game #11476762374: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/08/13 - 23:33:35 (ET)
Table 'Silesia V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: infantmelt ($109.45 in chips)
Seat 3: skyhi420 ($313.15 in chips)
Seat 4: joosebucklol ($199 in chips)
Seat 5: bottomset ($315.55 in chips)
Seat 6: studboy1 ($197 in chips)
Seat 7: bbnnbb52 ($202.70 in chips)
Seat 8: Cuzco ($49.80 in chips)
Seat 9: neverbluff00 ($236.50 in chips)
bottomset: posts small blind $1
studboy1: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joosebucklol [Td 5d]
bbnnbb52: calls $2
Cuzco: folds
neverbluff00: folds
infantmelt: folds
skyhi420: folds
joosebucklol: raises $6 to $8
bottomset: folds
studboy1: folds
bbnnbb52: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [Jd 9d Qd]
bbnnbb52: bets $2
joosebucklol: raises $12 to $14
bbnnbb52: raises $12 to $26
joosebucklol:

No point playing T5s if we're not prepared to stack with a nut flush. This could be KT/99/JJ(maybe)/Ad+pair, and all of the above will probably stack. Minbet-4bet is kinda indicative of a noob playing a huge hand though...

meh, we have the redraw to the straight flush anyways

Repop to like a bill, call a shove mesays.

his 4bet did worry & make me wake up a bit. first thought was a set or aa with the Ad

-we own those hands, as well as two pair, straights, Adx, KdKx and smaller flushes.
-we are giving money to bigger flushes, but still do have some redraws (although they are 2 outs strong )

I think this is a clear reraise-push. Big action flop there.

I think this looks more like AQ with the Ad, regarldless were ahead of his range, the likelyhood of him flopping a flush are extremly slight, even though his 4 bet looks enticing i think i 5-bet this, re-evaluate futther action, but if he goes ahead and shoves, I think im playing for stacks here.

well AdAx and AdQx are essentially the same here. my point was combo with an flush draw was my first thought. we got all in and he had the Khigh flush. wondering if there's a situation where we ever consider folding this on the flop. (i didnt.)

Surely a 5-bet here makes him fold. DO we really want to loose him. I'm calling here and hope he pushes turn to a blank card maybe. If not, value bet the turn.

joosebuck said:

wondering if there's a situation where we ever consider folding this on the flop. (i didnt.)

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No way.

well i meant if we 5bet and make it ~75 there's no way to fold to a shove, right?

joosebuck said:

well i meant if we 5bet and make it ~75 there's no way to fold to a shove, right?

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I dont think I'm ever folding a flopped flush to be honest, not hu no way.

joosebuck said:

his 4bet did worry & make me wake up a bit. first thought was a set or aa with the Ad

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A set would have bet it harder to protect against flush, a flush draw is going to check behind you and see another card, not re-raise.

I dont really know what he's got, AK would be likely on flop action but not pre-flop action. You'd be really unlucky though to flop a flush against someone else that has also flopped a flush, so i'd play it as a winner.

I'd take a chance and call him now, crossing my fingers tightly that a diamond doesn't come on the turn. If you re-raise or push he's going to take the hint that you've got a flush and fold, he's got 170 bucks left and i'd be looking to take the lot.

im not sure if u got position on him, if u have id just flat call, minimum reraise maybe a semi bluff, if u reraise him there he would fold, let him hang himself. if hes got king 8 diamonds that just unlucky thats why you got a banroll pal. what he have i wanna know!!

oh he had king high flush thats unlucky

robinson47 said:

oh he had king high flush thats unlucky

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Oh yeah, didn't spot that!

There's no need to rush your posts, if you use capitals, punctuation and type "you" instead of "u", your posts will get a lot more respect.

I know you said hr had the k-high flush, but tbh, I wouldn't have put him on any K-high flush, as it would mean he's limp/calling K8s UTG at 10max....which I don't really see much of at 200nl. So I would put his range at a few ace high flushes and a few SC flushes, and thereas about an even amount of those we're beating and losing to. Add in teh odd strt and AdQx or something, and I think we can never get away here, however scary his line is

Villain cant make it any clearer that he has a flush too.

I often see same line when i have a lower set, and someone has a higher one, or preflop when i have KK and villain has AA.

And most of the time, villain has that hand youre afraid of.

And most of the time i cant fold it. But i really think a better player would in similar situations.

alan1983 said:

Villain cant make it any clearer that he has a flush too.

I often see same line when i have a lower set, and someone has a higher one, or preflop when i have KK and villain has AA.

And most of the time, villain has that hand youre afraid of.

And most of the time i cant fold it. But i really think a better player would in similar situations.

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I dont know, opponent is insanely lucky that he calls UTG with K8s, then calls a 4xBB raise, then flops flush against a single opponent that has also flopped a flush (and not the Ace flush that the raise probably suggested it should be). That's a once in a year hand, i think you can be excused for choosing another hand to put him on.

The hand highlights the folly of raising 4xBB against an early position caller with a rag hand. Betting $8 with an upside of $5 and a downside of $199 is nuts.

no it was K6s

Yes rob but we dont know he doesnt have the ace. and ace rag suited is a hand that gets limp called with a lot.

And while anything can happen preflop, not many hands will minraised a big raise postflop on a 3flush board

I can honestly say I would have folded facing that reraise - what do you think he's going to reraise on a three diamond board? High pair? Two pair? Set? None of those would really make sense, especially if he continues to push. It sucks to fold a flush, but if you think logically, it makes sense for him to have the higher flush. I mean, let's say he doesn't - is he going to call you all-in? No, he's going to fold. If he does, though, he'll take you for all you're worth.

It's the sort of situation where, regardless of what he has, if you continue to fire back at him, you'll win a small pot or you'll lose a big one. Those types of situations are must-fold situations, at least for me.

joosebuck said:

no it was K6s

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so we still had one solid out when the money went in. i don't see the problem

my only real problem with the hand is the fact that not only did you call, but raised it up to $8. what is the real point of doing that, other that to win $2. You are raising it too much if 10 5 suited is a raising hand. When you do that, you may occasionaly steal some blinds from other people, but in the long run it will cost you some of your bankroll.

Also to alan1983, i dont really see how its obvious he has the flush. i could easily see K 10 suited/ or off calling the raise preflop and flopping his straight. not wanting to get beaten by what he thinks might be Ad x, he goes all in to try and aviod the flushdraw

position + punishing limping from the button. i think this is somewhat standard (although i might be a bit more loose than you from the button)

i will sometimes raise from good position without too much regard to my cards but if you do it too much then you will see him limp with AA or a monster, only to have you lose the $8 when you raise. so i just try an stay away from it, yet i am more of a tight player so there you have it

The only indication he might have a better flush is the fact he minreraised, which looks like an attempt to get the pot bigger and commit you more and more to it. I say its an indication but in the same time I've never played $200 MAX so when I see a comment that says that hands like K/rag/s usually don't limp UTG and call a raise at these levels, that of course furthens you from understanding you're beat. Still though I can't see a hand like Adx minraising OOP after getting a heavy 3bet.

I somehow tend to agree with Alan that good players should be able to get away from these situations, at least sometimes and I'm not saying this was necessarily one of those.