$2000 PLO 6-max: Line Check 10/25 PLO

M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
I don't particularly think this hand is interesting just thought I'd post for a line check. Main villain is Sam Trickett, very competent, a bit on the aggro side. Secondary villain is very competent as well, very tricky can play back and get creative.

***** Hand History for Game 15988624696 *****
$5,000 USD PL Omaha - Wednesday, March 29, 17:31:58 BST 2017
Table Amsterdam (real money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6/6
Seat 2: Player2 ( $6,537.02 USD )
Seat 4: Player4 ( $1,680.75 USD )
Seat 1: ME ( $2,998 USD )
Seat 3: Player3 ( $8,693.98 USD )
Seat 5: Player5 ( $1,832.40 USD )
Seat 6: Player6 ( $8,950.82 USD )
Player3 posts small blind [$10 USD].
Player4 posts big blind [$25 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ Ks Ts Js Qd ]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
ME raises [$75 USD]
Player2 calls [$75 USD]
Player3 calls [$65 USD]
Player4 calls [$50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Jc, 9s ]
Player3 bets [$297 USD]
Player4 folds
ME calls [$297 USD]
Player2 calls [$297 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
Player3 checks
ME checks
Player2 checks
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
Player3 bets [$800 USD]
Your time bank will be activated in 6 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
ME will be using their time bank for this hand.
ME calls [$800 USD]
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Does he bet AJ there or just boats and bluffs? I mean betting into 2 players certainly looks stronger than your hand can handle but he also knows that and could be betting as his only way of winning the hand. Guess it really comes down to what you think he's capable of. I doubt player 2 can credibly bluff raise after checking through the turn so I don't mind the call since player 3 probably has a fair amount of misses he bets there. Plus, I'm a station and calling is fun.

As you know, I'm just talking out my ass here, so everyone should ignore all of the above except the part about me being a station.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
He's suppose to bet AJ as well but you can class those as boats pretty much with the separate distinct that AJ is more likely to bet turn than a boat.

Player 2 can bluff, it's very Spazzy but it's not impossible, not the worse situation to do it if he has a Bad jack
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
124
Is P3 ever leading out flopped sets here? And then checking the turn to see if the J helped anyone (if he expects you or P2 to bet a boat) and value betting the river?
 
toots babos

toots babos

ex-tornament grinder
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Total posts
3,869
Awards
16
Chips
109
Why aren't you potting flop with your wrap + other back door draws?

Tricky trickett probably has similar wrap but also with Ax clubs in his hand also.

If I were in your position on the river I'd probably make the call also given the fact the flush draw and straight draw has bricked.

Seems like a WA/WB situation for river
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
Why aren't you potting flop with your wrap + other back door draws?

Tricky trickett probably has similar wrap but also with Ax clubs in his hand also.

If I were in your position on the river I'd probably make the call also given the fact the flush draw and straight draw has bricked.

Seems like a WA/WB situation for river

Its a high variance line and I think in these spots you dont need to do it everytime. There is obviously a portion of the time you want to do it but you just cant get it in with every wrap/pair combo. Especially with a player behind plus if the pot was bigger/ a 3 bet pot it makes more sense since STP is a lot shallower but we have loads to play for here.
 
toots babos

toots babos

ex-tornament grinder
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Total posts
3,869
Awards
16
Chips
109
Its a high variance line and I think in these spots you dont need to do it everytime. There is obviously a portion of the time you want to do it but you just cant get it in with every wrap/pair combo. Especially with a player behind plus if the pot was bigger/ a 3 bet pot it makes more sense since STP is a lot shallower but we have loads to play for here.
Yeah I understand it's high variance but given they both have more than double your stack would that not give you an opportunity to go for a full double up/fold out a few potential better hands(depending how they perceive your image/range) at a 3k potential loss worst case scenario?

Given the baller I perceive you to be I imagine you to be going for that spot all day long and if it doesn't work out to be reloading 5k and then to use this hand as a potential set up for a hand played later on using the same line when you are nutted..... although having said that I don't know if you are already in a big hole of 10k+ trying to grind it back.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
It's definitely not about the reload or if im stuck or up at this point (think i just sat this table, so might have been up about 500 or w/e, something inconsequential). Its really just a matter of balance more than anything with the flop call. I have absolutely no issue getting this in on that flop and in fact if p3 does put in a raise, I am going to cap it and put it in. However we should definitely not be raising a spot 100% of the time, it becomes way too transparent and plus while this hand is great, getting this in 3 way also doesnt retrieve a ton of equity. Let me display below a few examples.

Firstly, lets give them some garbage hands that can get it in if spazzy enough. Bare NFD and bottom 2 pair

board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 33.48% 223 0
4d9dAhKh 25.68% 171 0
Ac2c3d5d 40.84% 272 0



Lets keep one guy having bottom 2 pair, the other has nut flush draw but also a J

board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 26.58% 177 0
4d9dAhKh 26.13% 174 0
Ac8cJd5d 47.30% 315 0


Someone has a set this time and someone else has a FD

board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 26.73% 178 0
9c9dAhKh 39.49% 263 0
Ac8c2d5d 33.78% 225 0


now lets look at some HU situations. 2 pair for example


board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 48.35% 395 3
Jd9dAhKh 51.65% 422 3


HU against a set

board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 43.78% 359 0
9h9dAhKh 56.22% 461 0


Pair and FD maybe

board: Jc4c9s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
KsQsJsTd 46.34% 380 0
9c5dAcKh 53.66% 440 0



Obviously these are random hands, and I get we gain by just folding everything else out but it is a very high variance flop raise, sure when we get HU our equity is never going to be bad. But there are a lot of situations where it can turn a bit cold. Again, its a spot where you can do it, i have no problem with that, in fact its still prob a winner all things consider, but sometimes you take the lesser variance line, I have position on the donk leader so it can make up equity later in the hand.
 
toots babos

toots babos

ex-tornament grinder
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Total posts
3,869
Awards
16
Chips
109
I understand alot better now since you've added some equity calcs and can see where your hand may stand Vs potential villain hands. Thanks for your thoughts on the flop situation, good to get a bit of insight on how better PLO players think about hands/situations.

What are you thoughts about the turn check? Are you hoping you'll get a free shot of backing into a boat on the river?

It seems like the lack of turn action has you wondering where you stand when it comes to facing the river bet.

Would it make more sense to maybe bet/fold about $500 on the turn to see where you stand Vs the river call $800 line?
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Total posts
914
Awards
15
Chips
0
Yah, I also like leading turn especially when player 3 checks. This card almost certainly helped your hand more than the others.

If they pot it I'm not sure I would fold though, if you are worried about high-variance spots then checking might be right.

I know Skjervoy or gavz101 back in the day would be betting and calling off on turn and then getting there if needed. ;)

Good luck to you.
 
D

Dwarf

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Total posts
245
Chips
0
I like your line.

Yes this is Omaha.

You open with a suited Broadway wrap.

You check call drawing to the second nuts.
You check when you turn trips - and get a check behind.

The river is almost an Omaha blank.
I don't mind taking a check call line here. The only issue is that when villain leads for basically pot size. Tough decision and I probably would call. :?
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
On the turn check compared to raise, Ask yourself what range of hands we actually raise turn with. When you realise how narrow it is, you end up having to check back nut cards. That combined with not really getting great value with a bet and villains have boats. Its not as clear a bet..
 
toots babos

toots babos

ex-tornament grinder
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Total posts
3,869
Awards
16
Chips
109
On the turn check compared to raise, Ask yourself what range of hands we actually raise turn with. When you realise how narrow it is, you end up having to check back nut cards. That combined with not really getting great value with a bet and villains have boats. Its not as clear a bet..

yeah I get you but I'm just thinking in terms of potentially finding out where we stand in this hand, say we bet 500 on turn and we get rid of the player to act behind us and then when river comes potentially the flop donk bettor checks to us and we can check back and go to showdown.

since you're the player in the middle it puts you in a tricky spot come river because what do you do if the player with position to you then decides to pot it after you've called the 800?
 
E

ekgbeat

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Total posts
1,359
Awards
2
Chips
0
OP, do you share your Stars SN, or are you trying to remain anonymous?
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
That's not stars, that's party so even if you had the screw. And it's irrelevant unless you are playing in the games it shows up as annon
 
D

Dwarf

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Total posts
245
Chips
0
So what ended up happening? Did he turn over pocket 6s with a flush draw that boated the river?
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
he ended up showing AQ92 no FD.
 
Ducky7

Ducky7

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Total posts
4,129
Awards
3
Chips
3
Fold pre only 1 suit vs a solid player cant be good
 
Omahahahaha

Omahahahaha

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Total posts
554
Awards
1
Chips
15
not really a good spot to bluff into two people and you don't beat any of his value hands
 
Top