Originally Posted by baudib1
can i ask why we're not betting this flop?
In general when I flop or have broadway I almost always play it fast because of the high likelihood of someone having two pair and not folding, so when I checked the flop I was planning to c/r.
As far as donking the flop I thought if I did that, although I could get action from UTG with a flat or a raise, I was pretty sure he'd bet this flop and I could try and squeeze in the SB as well where as if I lead I'd likely squeeze him out. Had I been in the SB (relative position blah blah blah) I would certainly give it more consideration, although I think it still poses a problem, bc I think we get more $$ against two pair hands by check raising then betting the turn if they will call (we get three bets in) rather then betting the flop which they may flat (we lose a bet) or they may raise but then check behind the turn with (we lose a bet).... actually with a board this drawy theyd probably keep firing a blank, and if they flat the flop bet they certainly might raise the turn so maybe it doesn't matter
On the flop we're obviously trying to make the pot as big as possible/get as much $ in as we can, so you figure what's the best way to do that...
If we donk:
- PFR raises which squeezes out SB (we lose one bet if he would have called)
- We flat the raise and check the turn, but he checks right behind us (we lose a bet if he would have called a c/r and a turn bet) [i think 3 betting here will cause THIS particular villain to fold all non set hands, although I agree we can basically get stacks in if he has KK JJ TT]
- PFR flats (we lose a bet if he would've called a c/r)
- PFR has air or a middle pocket pair and folds (we lose a CBet)
If we check:
- PFR is betting this flop a boatload so we usually get a CBet out of missed hands
- We attempt to squeeze the SB in with hands like Qx Kx or even something like JT which may fold to a donk / raise by the PFRer
- There are some hands in villains range that might flat or raise/check behind turn, but would call a check raise (AK AA KQ, less likely QQ)
Granted ALL this wasnt goin through my head when I checked... just more often than not when I have relative position I let the PFR do the initial betting to squeeze as much dead money in the pot from other players as possible, rather than donking into him and him possibly raising and forcing this extra $ out). Like I said had my relative position been worse I would have given more thought into donking this flop
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
Is this live?
Yea this is a live hand.