$2000 NLHE Full Ring: Folding QQ pre?

Came across this hand in my weekly 10/20 session that bothered me.

Table dynamics: mainly TAG, few lags like me. Action doesn't normally get to heated pref lop. Everybody is playing a deep stack ($4000 +) as the max buy-in is set at 200bb


Hand 1.

UTG (tag) opens to 70

UTG+1 (tag) raises to 350

UTG+2 (Tag) four bets to 1150

action folds to hero in mp with Qd Qc

Hero?

Should i four bet, flat, or fold? I think i would have to four-bet jam playing a 5k stack, and against that kind of action I'm flipping at best it seems. If i flat and no face cards hit on the flop, i might still be behind, and i would have to fold in the face of an ace or king. I go ahead and fold. Is this a loosing play?

Normally i would definatley play this, but with these dynamics am i ever winning?

Spoiler: UTG jams with AA and gets called by the four-better with the other two queens.

You know this game better than we do, so your reads of the TAGs matter a ton.

However, in a generic live game, people don't 3bet/4bet much preflop. And on average, people 3bet a preflop raise about half as much when the original raiser is UTG. So the normally tight live ranges are even tighter.

I probably just fold this, after some whining. We need AQ, JJ type stuff in their range, and that seems optimistic.

Side note: This is probably a great game to short-stack. Buy in for like 20 bb's and push around all the loose deep stacks preflop.

Yes this is a fold spot as UTG and UTG +1 acting behind and cold 4 bet. I used to jam here with Queens but I learnt my lesson.

I think it's a fold against such action personally think it's being optimistic to expect opponents to have JJ or AQ here.

Given the action to you, and your reads, and the fact that full ring plays very differently from 6 max, I would say your fold was a good play.

Nice fold. Cold 4 bets are pretty strong

It'd be one thing if ANY of the guys were in mid to late position. But the first 3 positions just decided to open large, 3bet large, and 4bet large... I am not one to fold big pairs pre, but I would super confidently muck JJ and worse as well as AKo. QQ and AKs I would similarly whine and hem and haw but is ultimately a fold. I think it's fine to just shove KK+ and fold everything else.

I think flatting anything here is probably really bad because we create an SPR of like 1.2 or something if no one else continues, and sometimes we'll get jammed out by the people behind us and it's a disaster to put in 50bb with a hand we're folding to a 200-250bb shove imo.

Nice disciplined fold man.

Edit: lol sorry just saw this got necro'd from forever ago.

If you believe the professionals - the fourth raise preflop is a pair of aces. You have a QQ, a perfectly valid fold. Good luck. :icon_joke:icon_joke

Great lesson from TAG opponents. GG my friend.

quant1986 said:

Yes this is a fold spot as UTG and UTG +1 acting behind and cold 4 bet. I used to jam here with Queens but I learnt my lesson.

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" I learnt my lesson" I am jealous of you Quant, I have had this lesson taught to me several very expensive times and I am not sure if it has completely sunk in. I have experienced the hands run out the way your did and then we have all seen then run out with other players showing "TT" and "AK" and low pocket pairs that you wished you had gotten it in with.

Of coarse we have all had the best of it with "AA" preflop, only to have the villain go on to win with a set or two pairs, etc..

Sometimes those 2 outers just suck out! All you can do is go on to the next hand.