$200 NLHE Full Ring: TP on flop, what do I do now?

Just played some live poker today and came across this probably loleasy boring hand. Might be a fold pre but **** it, it's live. Guy next to me was a typical old guy loose passive

Utg
Utg1
Mp1
Mp2
Me:~180
Villain:200+
Btn
Bb
Sb

Hero is dealt QhJd

Utg folds, utg1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $14, villain calls, everyone folds

Flop($30): Jc 5c 2h

Hero bets $20, villain calls

Turn($70): As

Hero checks, villain checks

River($70): 7c

Hero ???

Maybe I should've bet the turn? I don't know, help.

I'd bet the turn. Check/fold or Bet/fold like $25 on river seems close.

Actually bet/fold probably better as he might actually fold KJ/QJ.

If he's passive I like checking turn or betting really small, as played he never has Ax so I just bet like 30ish.

either way if we check and he bets turn and river its an easy fold, or if we bet turn and check river and he bets its an easy fold. I prefer the former because he really isn't going to bet firing twice as a bluff and he may fold like J7 or J8 to another barrell

I'm betting $40-45 on the turn and b/f'ing like $60 otr I think.

I kind of like bet folding turn small, i think its getting thin as it is, im not sure i could bet the river and expect to get called by anything worse, so it'd have to be a check fold, unless draws miss or something and he bets small i guess. Still wouldnt be happy about it.

Checking also could work but im not sure i wanna give this guy free cards, if i bet/fold turn im check/folding river most likely, and if i check/call turn im definitely check/folding river.

check/fold or bet something crazy small like $10 to safeguard us from bluffs and be small enough to get value from the few pairs weaker than jacks still hanging around.

Deco said:

check/fold or bet something crazy small like $10 to safeguard us from bluffs and be small enough to get value from the few pairs weaker than jacks still hanging around.

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acky100 said:

I kind of like bet folding turn small, i think its getting thin as it is, im not sure i could bet the river and expect to get called by anything worse,

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This is live poker, not online. You're vastly overestimating his opponents abilities.

dwbrown7680 said:

This is live poker, not online. You're vastly overestimating his opponents abilities.

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Him being very loose doesn't really give us much more value. We see more 5x/underpairs making the call but we also see more Ax hands that made it past the flop and XcXc hands calling pre.

Generally, you come out strong on the turn and rep that A against a passive player. He'll let you know if he hit it himself. If he didn't the pot is yours.


There isn't much there as a way of deducing his range, but an A or an over pair (to the flop) needs to be considered. Did the A scare him or is he slow playing it? Not enough to go on outside of a flush draw. You can either rep that flush yourself or check and see what he does. Maybe his flush draw is weak?


Another possible (WEAK) tactic is go for a check down figuring/hoping you have him beat anyway but don't want to invest any more. Old guy is more likely to check it down than young guy. If he hit the flush he'll bet it out and you can fold. If he didn't he probably won't take a stab at it.


Me? I now have to check the river and see what happens. I am not feeling good about showing down with only a pair of jacks


BTW, typical old guy is usually more in line with tight passive. But old is pretty subjective. That might mean 40 to you and it means 70 to me.

Deco said:

check/fold or bet something crazy small like $10 to safeguard us from bluffs and be small enough to get value from the few pairs weaker than jacks still hanging around.

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After looking back on it, I think turn could be an easy b/f to like 45. He calls that much with his weaker jacks and FDs. Once river comes though I'd probably c/f. What do you think?

@mediablitz, I always here that old guys are right but I have yet to see an old guy fold as much pre as I do.

I like a bet on the turn,1 make the draws pay for the river and 2 rep that the A doesn't bother you. As played, bet/fold, you will get enough better hands to fold to you, bet $10-$15.

bgomez89 said:

After looking back on it, I think turn could be an easy b/f to like 45. He calls that much with his weaker jacks and FDs. Once river comes though I'd probably c/f. What do you think?

@mediablitz, I always here that old guys are right but I have yet to see an old guy fold as much pre as I do.

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Dont get me wrong - they can limp with best of em. But again it depends how you define old. I rarely see a loose silver fox where I'm at.

bgomez89 said:

After looking back on it, I think turn could be an easy b/f to like 45. He calls that much with his weaker jacks and FDs. Once river comes though I'd probably c/f. What do you think?

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I'd bet less if I did this. Kinda on the fence whether to, it's pretty thin. I may stove it later. Main thing is we need to know villain never bluffs his draws on the river if we plan to check/fold, otherwise we weren't charging the draws but handing them free moneys. Two small bets can't go far wrong I guess. Feeler bets are so damn obvious yet fish never seem to raise them.

As for the old man thing it was a Mike Caro tell I recall. Back then the standards for what's loose and what's tight were very different, I would take it to mean they're generally tighter rather than tight (30/10s rather than 65/50s). Generally I haven't seen much truth in it. I have yet to see an aggressive old man though. If you've got nothing else sterotypes are better than nothing I guess if in your experience they hold true.

Deco said:

As for the old man thing it was a Mike Caro tell I recall. Back then the standards for what's loose and what's tight were very different, I would take it to mean they're generally tighter rather than tight (30/10s rather than 65/50s). Generally I haven't seen much truth in it. I have yet to see an aggressive old man though. If you've got nothing else sterotypes are better than nothing I guess if in your experience they hold true.

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Yeah, it's always very strange to me when an old guy - holding the nuts - flat calls the river.

I b/f the turn for great justice. Half pot or so.

Hands like this make me happy I'm a live cash game player. Played bad the whole way through imo, SEAT OPEN!

I would have claimed that A.

It takes a tight sphincter to barrel that, but it's the only way to continue your story.

Gotta raise the A.

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4sorbetter said:

Hands like this make me happy I'm a live cash game player. Played bad the whole way through imo, SEAT OPEN!

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Please enlighten me on how you would've played it or does it involve lots of calling and minbetting like most live players do?

Limp pre, check/call all flops, check/call all turns, donk 10% of the pot on the river.

I think raise pre bet flop check turn and check fold this flush river card is fine, you could check call the river if you thought they were a loose aggro fish, but its probably a check fold. betting the turn is fine as well just fold to a raise and check call all non club rivers.

I disagree with limping pre because you have two high cards a ton of fish and the ability to cbet!

sixpeppers said:

I disagree with limping pre because you have two high cards a ton of fish and the ability to cbet!

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C9 was being sarcastic. But yeah limp pre here like 100% of the time.

Lol