$200 NLHE Full Ring: Shoving top pair + flush draw on flop

200NL with $1/$3 blinds at my local casino.

The table is fairly passive preflop and 3betting is very rare. I'm in SB with a full $200 stack, BTN has a $140 stack and has been fairly quiet, BB has about $700 and is a fish on a heater (the kind of guy who makes a $15 bet into an $80 pot with top pair bottom kicker and limp-calls ATC preflop), MP1 has a $100 stack and the rest are just your typical 200NL fish.

Hero is dealt Ad 3d from the SB
MP1 limps, BTN limps, hero limps, BB checks

$12 in pot (4 players)
Flop shows Ah Qd 5d

Hero bets $6, BB calls $6, MP1 folds, BTN raises to $25, hero shoves $200

What do you think of the way I played this hand? Was there an alternative line I could've taken?

Dude, why shove? You want BB too call everytime. He can have any two suited and you have a prime spot to cooler him and if he doesn't have a flush draw this is a nice spot to let him juice up the pot for you with another $25.

I only like bluffing with Pair+Flush draw hands when we flop bottom or mid pairs because we then block sets and usually will have better equity when we get it in. When we bluff with top pair we block the hands he will get it in light with and we are going up against the stronger part of his range or folding out his bluffs.

Faced a similar situation at my casino which I posted about. We can't be shoving for value, right? I think that is clear. We will have a lot of equity against BTN but our hand isn't made yet. BTN is going to be stronger than us (think 2 pair, sets). As the board is wet enough, and BTN doesn't seem like a drooler, he has to be aware that semi-bluffs can shove.

The bigger reason I wouldn't shove, like IPlay said, is to keep the super fish in. You are most certainly ahead of him and if you hit, you easily could get all his money.

My logic at the time was: if I didn't shove, I would be committed to calling a turn bet and then a river shove, so I'd be getting my money in anyway. I thought that the villain might fold 2 pairs or better Aces if I shove.

Matthew Southall said:

My logic at the time was: if I didn't shove, I would be committed to calling a turn bet and then a river shove, so I'd be getting my money in anyway. I thought that the villain might fold 2 pairs or better Aces if I shove.

Click to expand...

A short stack live 1/2 player that will fold 2 pair with a flush draw on board and the only set out there is 55..........................

You may get your money in anyway(maybe not)but you can also get all the fishes money in too.

I don't think villain is folding two pair here. Given that we are probably beat, we aren't really committed to calling a turn bet right? Can't we just run the odds on the turn and go from there? Also, any turn that superfish hangs around for is one that I would love to be there for. As long as superfish is in and I have a reasonable price for hitting, I'm suppppppppper incentivized to hang around. Not such a bad proposition.

And, if it comes blank blank, do we really HAVE to call a river shove? Definitely not, right? We can play smart poker and save ourselves $100 or whatever, brush it off, and hit our flush on of the next times we flop the nut draw.

Flop sizing could be bigger, prob around $15. When pots are this small, large bets aren't going to discourage anyone to fold hands with which they'd call $6.

It's a massive mistake to think anyone at this level is folding value hands with which they're raising flop. Shoving either a) gets your stack in poorly against value hands or b) folds out worse draws that would raise flop.