$200 NLHE Full Ring: Should I have known he had a better Full House

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StraightFloooosh

StraightFloooosh

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Button/Hero (me): Kh7h
Everybody folds to the CO who calls
Hero: Raise to 15
SB/BB: Fold
CO: Call

Flop: Kc9s7c
CO: Raises to 25
Hero: Calls

Turn: 3d
CO: Checks
Hero: Raise 45
CO: Calls
(Pot =$170)

River: 7d
CO: Bets 15 ???
Hero: Donk Shove
CO: Calls/ turns over 9d9c

His 9's full of sevens beats my 7's full of Kings.

Should I have flatcalled here, I went full donk-mode and was only thinking about my holdings. He played exactly what you would expect from a pocket pair that hit a set, so I kind of feel like an idiot. Maybe because I'm a relative beginner at live play, but I just can't lay down a full house.

Could you have laid this one down?
 
J

JKo2theQQ

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Nope!!. I'm never going to fold here. Also, I think you need to raise on the river EVERY time. The question is how much. Your main goal at that point is to get as much as you can from your opponent. IF you think he will call the all in, I would probably shove every time. There are ONLY 2 hands that beat you. Just bad luck that you happened to run into one. Sooooo many hands could play the hand like he did. AK, KQ, K9, A7, AA, 97, and perhaps even weaker if he thinks you are loose. Nothing you could do to change the outcome here. Even if you only raise small on the river, he is going to shove. The ONLY way to avoid this spot was to fold preflop. Just bad luck.....it happens.. Good Luck.
 
Four Dogs

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What were the stack sizes and what did you expect to get called by?
 
Aces2w1n

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Just remember when your betting your betting for value. When you shove huge over the top. You want people to call with smaller monsters.

When you raise smaller or reraise slightly more you'll get called a lot wider.


Hmm Preflop: No strength shown he calls sure, but his range still quite wide though OOP so question is a good or bad player?

Flop: he donk bets .. he's showing strength, I doubt any player will be better $25 into the pot with a 3rd pair seriously. not even a 9.

So with knowing the flop bet. He tells us he hasn't got second or third pair. he has something question is what.

AA? AK? AQ/AJ/AT maybe TT ... that we could beat and re-raise.


The CO turn card he checks... Okay he's giving up? but wait!!! one thing turn card is ... A BRICK! so nothing has changed. he's either trying to buy the pot on the flop or he's got something!.

river. 15bet... he doesn't want a fold. do we want to call or think theres more value? YES! we value ... do we shove? probably not because really can we put him on a 7 according to his flop bet NO!...

So at worst he has a decent to strong king. ... What we do beat do you think would call a shove? NO!

so we shouldn't shove and we should value bet... not to scare but to get callers. Because our villain is either strong or weak... because of the flop bet.
 
Figaroo2

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Yeah sometimes you just have to pay them off. Other than his flop lead out I don't like the way he played it at all. You can't put him on 99 much more than KK. He should have raised pre to get the most value from his hand. He was lucky you backed into such a strong holding. He played it like a missed flush draw.or weak King..mark him as tricky.
 
Sil3ntness

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Yeah he donked the flop and the river (you were the aggressor on the turn). The donk bet on the river definitely looked like a blocker bet/thin value. Unfortunately you got coolered by a set that turned into a boat. Not much you can do about that.
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That's why I'm so hesitant to get it all in when the board is paired up. I know it sounds nitty, but I have run into boats & bigger boats SO MANY times while putting in volume.

(Without looking at the results) Maybe raise $45-50 on the river in position and see if villain flat calls or goes over the top. If villain had shoved over your raise, you know you're dealing with possibly (A7s, 67s, 78s) <--- but you're blocking a 7 tho. So the only other hands are 33 & 99 and busted flush draws. Doesn't make sense to donk 33, villain could be donk/blocker betting on a flush draw. However if you had raised river and villain shoves over your raise it's super polarized. Either villain has the nuts or complete air.

I'm thinking way too much into this, but basically as played your hand is a cooler.
 
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Weisssound

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I guess I'm echoing what other people are saying but: yes, you raise that river, no you don't shove it. Although chances are he puts all his chips in any way.

PF: He limped his 9s. This leaves his holding pretty disguised. This is either a) clever if he knows he has someone aggressive acting behind him, or (b) really stupid because it's a waste of a strong holding.

But at this point it's easier to put him on speculative hands or top premiums honestly (AA/KK/AK/AQ).

Flop:
Kc9s7c

Villain leads out 25, into what I'm supposing is around 30 in the pot. So almost pot sized. I actually like this donk bet because there's a fair amount of kings in your range, and it further disguises his hand.

What it looks like to the outside - he has a king and he's protecting it from a fairly draw heavy board. What it looks like to you IF you were to have a king (from his perspective) - he is repping a king, or possibly AA but in reality has a draw. JT, T8s, Ac4c.

Turn:
3d, the brickiest brick of all the bricks.

He checks which kind of reinforces the draw concept. You bet 45 - I don't love this bet. You're betting 45 into 80, so your villains essentially getting 3:1 on a call. In a 200NL this isn't max value you can get from a draw and doesn't really tell you much about where you're at. 60 I think would be better. Anyway, right now the easiest hands to put him on are draws.

River: 7d

He leads out again and bets 15 into 170. Given his holding I hate this bet. But I understand what he's trying to do. He's hoping YOU have a flush here, or at the very least AK and is putting in so little that it's essentially just a check. Except it's a check that requires you to now value bet a little higher than what you would have value bet otherwise.

However, unless he's a super-reader jedi master, this bet takes all the draws out of his range. This puts him on a most likely range of: A7 (4), K9 (6), QQ (6), AK (12), KQ (12). But how many of those lead out the flop and then check the turn? A slow played K9 and QQ are the only hands in that group that makes sense. so 10 combos of legit hands, 40 combos if you include missteps and weird plays.

The only other option here is that he has a monster and either wants you to bluff the diamond flush or legit raise for value with your A7/AK/whatever value hands you might have. What monsters are out there?

99 (4), 33 (4), Ace Rag diamond (5), maybe JT/T8 diamond sometimes (I'll credit 1 combo). So, like 15 legit monsters, of which you are beating 11.

So of 25 legit hands you're beating 21. If you count bad plays you're ahead over 90% of the time.

But what calls you when you shove? Only monsters. Half the sensible hands, 1/3 of the overall combos. It's not the worst shove in the world, but I think you can get more value by betting something like $90. And we're really playing for value on this river.
 
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