$200 NLHE Full Ring: river nut flush and paired board

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Gildog89

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This is a live cash game against a player I have seen a couple of time before. He is decent, but plays a few too many hands in my opinion. The last time I played with him, he lost his $750 dollar stack in a hand that he overplayed Q 6 on a 7 9 Q Q turned board against a very good players full house. I had AQ in the hand but got away from it when my bet got called and raised big. When I sat down today, he immediately asked me about the hand. I told him what I folded, and that I had 2 hands to worry about, so it was easier for me to fold.

In this hand, villain is in the cutoff and I am the button with QcJc. I have $250 in my stack, villain has me covered.


2 limpers, and villain raises to $10, I call, the blinds fold, and the 2 limpers call.


Flop: Ac Jd 6c


check, check, villain bets $15.
I call $15, and the other 2 fold.


Pot is now $73


Turn: Ac Jd 6c Kh


villain checks, and I check behind


Pot still $73


River: Ac Jd 6c Kh Kc


Villain bets $26
I decide to raise to $70
Villain reraises to $225


What would you do here, and would you have just called the original river bet?
 
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Sidetracked

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I am very wary of overvaluing straights and flushes on paired boards. I would have just called the river bet.
 
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Gildog89

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Yup, when he raised me, I regretted my raise.

So my mistake puts me on another decision. Call or fold?
 
jsnake716

jsnake716

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Yup, when he raised me, I regretted my raise.

So my mistake puts me on another decision. Call or fold?



1st question for me, was his 10 raise with 2 limps standard? Do you have a read on the strength or lack of from his first action? I would like to know is he playing AK this way??


Then he bets less than 1/2 pot on flop? K on the turn and he checks. Sorry just going through this as I type. Is he the type to bet small with super strong hands? He is definitely saying he has a boat so I am wondering if that means he should have bet turn? I guess not if he has pkt. 6's or J's


Interesting hand, I think I may have taken the line you did and raised river. His bet-sizing is too small, so I would like to know if he changes size depending on hand strength. As played, I am calling his 3 bet on the river. I think he is losing value by betting small unless he is doing specifically as a trap?? Does that make sense?
 
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Gildog89

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1st question for me, was his 10 raise with 2 limps standard? Do you have a read on the strength or lack of from his first action? I would like to know is he playing AK this way??


Then he bets less than 1/2 pot on flop? K on the turn and he checks. Sorry just going through this as I type. Is he the type to bet small with super strong hands? He is definitely saying he has a boat so I am wondering if that means he should have bet turn? I guess not if he has pkt. 6's or J's


Interesting hand, I think I may have taken the line you did and raised river. His bet-sizing is too small, so I would like to know if he changes size depending on hand strength. As played, I am calling his 3 bet on the river. I think he is losing value by betting small unless he is doing specifically as a trap?? Does that make sense?
His 10 dollar bet pre is standard. I don't have a read on the small bet on the flop. The check on the turn makes no sense to me with this wet board. Then, his small bet on the river felt wierd to me too. When he reraised the river, I immediately started to think AK or a flopped set, but check the turn with that board? Why not bet it again for value or to deny straight/flush draw? Worried about QT? Did he play a draw? Maybe he has QT and is overvaluing broadway like the hand I saw last week...or KQ, a flopped gut shot, c-bet, and now has trips.

I found a call based on that line of thinking. Just wondering if most others see it the same way.
 
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mikeisthebestever

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Here are my thoughts;


A decent player could play AA like this. He would downsize the flop because he smashes the board and a large bet would fold out all worse hands. He MAY check back the turn for deception and/or be fearful of the straight getting there. Again on the river his bet is very tiny because he is trying to go for thin value, he doesnt think you are particularly strong and doesnt want you to fold.


If this is the case, then your read on him is flawed, because I would definately call him a thinking player if he is manipulating you with bet sizing at 1/2.
________


If your read on him is correct and he is more of a splashy amateur, then I would never expect a full house to be possible here. AK? He would have to make a sizing mistake on the flop, then check back top 2 on the turn on a super wet connected board? I discount that possibility. K 6 off? Would he lead into 4 players with bottom pair no draw?


_________________


Based on what you said about this player I am calling this 100% of the time.


Literally the only full house he can have is if he raised KJo, then got 4 callers, made a super exploitable sizing mistake on the flop with middle pair, then DIDNT bet turn because he .. forgot to? Then got there?


I just dont see it man, he would have to shit the bed on a lot of levels to show up with a boat here, I would pay the money just to see how he did it, because it would be spectacular. Honestly my general rule of thumb is if it doesnt make sense I call because I see too much strange shit at 1/2.


I would be interested in knowing what happened!
 
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Gildog89

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Here are my thoughts;


A decent player could play AA like this. He would downsize the flop because he smashes the board and a large bet would fold out all worse hands. He MAY check back the turn for deception and/or be fearful of the straight getting there. Again on the river his bet is very tiny because he is trying to go for thin value, he doesnt think you are particularly strong and doesnt want you to fold.


If this is the case, then your read on him is flawed, because I would definately call him a thinking player if he is manipulating you with bet sizing at 1/2.
________


If your read on him is correct and he is more of a splashy amateur, then I would never expect a full house to be possible here. AK? He would have to make a sizing mistake on the flop, then check back top 2 on the turn on a super wet connected board? I discount that possibility. K 6 off? Would he lead into 4 players with bottom pair no draw?


_________________


Based on what you said about this player I am calling this 100% of the time.


Literally the only full house he can have is if he raised KJo, then got 4 callers, made a super exploitable sizing mistake on the flop with middle pair, then DIDNT bet turn because he .. forgot to? Then got there?


I just dont see it man, he would have to shit the bed on a lot of levels to show up with a boat here, I would pay the money just to see how he did it, because it would be spectacular. Honestly my general rule of thumb is if it doesnt make sense I call because I see too much strange shit at 1/2.


I would be interested in knowing what happened!
Based on your comments, I guess I have to give him credit as a thinking player, though I am not so sure. He showed up with AA. When I mucked, he asked if I had broadway. I'm not sure he even knew a flush got home. I'll try to talk him up about the hand next time I see him.

Thanks for your thoughts on the hand.
 
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RakeMyLife

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I would have called.

This is/was a very strange line for AA (or any set really), as he basically gave you free outs to catch up with his turn check, then tried for only small value on the river. He got lucky the river hit both of you.

And there's no doubt he didn't put you on a flush.
 
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TDTODDY

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he could just as easily played Q 10 off. thinking you tripped up w/ K 10, he pushed the action.
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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Raise flop, fold river vs re raise. Flop is exactly the kind of board we wanna raise on there's a lot of great turns for us
 
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