$200 NLHE Full Ring: LIVE - Hero OOP w/ KINGS vs. OMC's Shove in Straddle Pot

3betfish

3betfish

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8-handed, LIVE $1/$3

  1. In this spot, would you fold or call?
  2. For those who don't know what OMC's are, they are the old farts who like to drink coffee, and play to see the flop, who do not raise very often, and love calling down with AX hands preflop. This guy in another hand limped preflop with ATs and bet the flop with an ace. Bet the turn. and checked the river (with best hand) when the board paired with 3's) -- (and obviously I was on the other side calling him with A9s... zzzzzzz)
======================================
Hero Stack (LOW JACK): ~$275.

Villain Stack (BUTTON): ~$350.
Villain is an OMC (old man coffee player) and is racking up to leave.
UTG STRADDLE for $6


UTG+1 calls $6
UTG+2 calls $6
Hero (Low jack) raises to $30 with black KINGS.
Villain (Button) calls $30.
SB + BB fold.
UTG folds.
UTG+1 calls $24.
UTG+2 calls $24.


FLOP: 9s6c4c - ($124)
UTG+1 checks.
UTG+2 checks.
Hero Continues for $100
Villain tanks and shoves all-in for $320 total ($220 more)
UTG+1 folds.
UTG+2 folds.
Hero????????????????????????????????? (has $145 behind)
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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i think I would call. what you refer to OMCs, I call flop junkies or bingo players. these guys are TERRRIFIED of getting drawn out on. if he has top pair, and he thinks you might cbet with a flush draw or straight draw (this board has both) he might ship it to try to take the pot down right here on the flop. he'd rather commit EV suicide than risk getting sucked out on. sometimes he has two pair or a set, but for the most part his AA will have 3bet all in pre unless hes sneaky sometimes. so yeah, sometimes we'll run into it. but atleast half the time he just has top pair or a worse overpair like JJ

EDIT: to add to that, youre calling 145 to win 469 so you only need roughly 25% against his range to call profitably. if we're right that often about him having top pair, we're good
 
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JustSoPro

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Playing live I would probably call, people tend to fold small pair to decent sized bets pre flop, so I'd put their range around...
77+(Any over pair, people tend to over bet live. With 9 high on board TT+ is a shove for most as they are scared of the flush draw.)
A-K- or Q high flush draw
SOMETIMES a 96 might float in live because players tend to be a lot loser... so maybe a two pair
More times than not, I'd expect to see a pocket pair of 7s or higher
 
3betfish

3betfish

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i think I would call. what you refer to OMCs, I call flop junkies or bingo players. these guys are TERRRIFIED of getting drawn out on. if he has top pair, and he thinks you might cbet with a flush draw or straight draw (this board has both) he might ship it to try to take the pot down right here on the flop. he'd rather commit EV suicide than risk getting sucked out on. sometimes he has two pair or a set, but for the most part his AA will have 3bet all in pre unless hes sneaky sometimes. so yeah, sometimes we'll run into it. but atleast half the time he just has top pair or a worse overpair like JJ

EDIT: to add to that, youre calling 145 to win 469 so you only need roughly 25% against his range to call profitably. if we're right that often about him having top pair, we're good

Playing live I would probably call, people tend to fold small pair to decent sized bets pre flop, so I'd put their range around...
77+(Any over pair, people tend to over bet live. With 9 high on board TT+ is a shove for most as they are scared of the flush draw.)
A-K- or Q high flush draw
SOMETIMES a 96 might float in live because players tend to be a lot loser... so maybe a two pair
More times than not, I'd expect to see a pocket pair of 7s or higher


SPOILER!!!!!!! (outcome of hand)

I wrote the hand analysis wrong. He had 99, and the board was somethign like 7s6c3c. He didn't improve and we scooped. Pretty much, he overplayed his overpair and i feel like i overplayed my overpair but came out ahead.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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SPOILER!!!!!!! (outcome of hand)

I wrote the hand analysis wrong. He had 99, and the board was somethign like 7s6c3c. He didn't improve and we scooped. Pretty much, he overplayed his overpair and i feel like i overplayed my overpair but came out ahead.
nah, i think you played it well. you have to go for value. i like the 80% pot sizing here because you are going to get calls from calling stations chasing the flush or straight or get people to call you down or raise you with top pair. especially if you have an image as an aggressive player.

also, if you play live, id recommend consuming everything you can get your hands on by ed miller. his video series called "the course" on redchip poker is the nuts (exagerating, but its worth the money) and im sure his book "the course" is worth it too. "the course" according to ed miller is designed to take break even or slightly losing players at 1/2 and turn them into winning players at up to 5/10



also, im glad the results fit in with my assumptions.... people say you shouldnt be results oriented, but results do play an important role in determining if your assumption s could true or if they are wrong. if the results dont fit your assumptions then your analysis is definitely wrong. but if they do fit then they are probably (but not definitely) right
 
3betfish

3betfish

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nah, i think you played it well. you have to go for value. i like the 80% pot sizing here because you are going to get calls from calling stations chasing the flush or straight or get people to call you down or raise you with top pair. especially if you have an image as an aggressive player.

also, if you play live, id recommend consuming everything you can get your hands on by ed miller. his video series called "the course" on redchip poker is the nuts (exagerating, but its worth the money) and im sure his book "the course" is worth it too. "the course" according to ed miller is designed to take break even or slightly losing players at 1/2 and turn them into winning players at up to 5/10



also, im glad the results fit in with my assumptions.... people say you shouldnt be results oriented, but results do play an important role in determining if your assumption s could true or if they are wrong. if the results dont fit your assumptions then your analysis is definitely wrong. but if they do fit then they are probably (but not definitely) right


While “the course” is tailored towards 1/2 live players, can you leave any kind testimony of why it’s a great product? Why you feel you would recommend it to a $1/$3 player like myself?

Update: also I thought I overplayed it because I overvalued my overpair. I found myself in a similar situation here:


https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comm...donk_call_13_nl_cash/?st=JHBDUI5J&sh=ac33c8a2
(My Reddit post a few months ago)
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I would say its because without playing a strong exploitative game, it would be impossible to get those $20/hour winrates. The course offers insight into how these players think and how to exploit their way of thinking to the fullest. That insight specific to live low limit cash games comes from years of careful study of player tendencies amd is sifficult to find in as complete of a package elsewhere. He also offers insight into how you most likely think based on his experience with his students and why some of those common thought patterns are wrong and how to think about things the right way.
 
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Gildog89

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I would call here too. Straddled pots especially put "OMC" type players on a weird kind of tilt where they overvalue their cards in my experience. With your pot odds, if you're beat by a set, so be it. I don't think you overplayed the hand.


I'll definitely be checking out stuff from Ed Miller. Several posts have mentioned it, and I play mostly live 1/2 and 2/4.
 
3betfish

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I would say its because without playing a strong exploitative game, it would be impossible to get those $20/hour winrates. The course offers insight into how these players think and how to exploit their way of thinking to the fullest. That insight specific to live low limit cash games comes from years of careful study of player tendencies amd is sifficult to find in as complete of a package elsewhere. He also offers insight into how you most likely think based on his experience with his students and why some of those common thought patterns are wrong and how to think about things the right way.

I was doing some research online and wasn’t too sure about what I found: is “the course” a book, or a training program?
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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its a book primarily, but its also a 12 part video series on redchippoker ( https://redchippoker.com/pro/playlists/the-course/ ). I havent read the book, but I plan on getting it. I've watched the video series though. the video series is supposed to be in companion to the book, introducing some of the ideas in the book and giving a little bit of extra insight from whats in the book.
 
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